Ways to make upcoming PB3 campaign better (V4 Update)

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Ways to make upcoming PB3 campaign better (V4 Update)

Postby curiosity » 14 April 2022, 19:31

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

V2 update - check next post. V3 update - check my post on second page. V4 update - check second page.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


This is continuation of my previous topic (better plot and levels design) - https://plazmaburst2.com/forum/viewtopi ... 48&t=25775

If I get it right Eric is okay with the idea of entrusting the development of PB3 campaign to community members (while directing them). I have some suggestions on how to make campaign better. It's not a full list. You can add more. If someone can also inform Eric about this topic please do it so he can consider implementing these ideas and make PB3 experience better for each of you (I don't have discord to do it myself).

1. Whole campaign should NOT BE made by one single head designer so we can avoid a situation when all campaign levels look repetitive, same and predictable in their design each next level. I would suggest having a team of developers where certain number of levels have one head designer and his assistants and other certain number of levels have other head designer and assistants. The head designer makes the map plan (blueprint) with key rooms, buildings and nature of whole map including the way how these structures should look like (distance between walls, background color scheme, other things) while assistants only help him with filling, updating and improving the map. This way the campaign will look refreshed each couple of levels and player wouldn't feel like he is playing copies of same map with few changes during whole campaign (it's what I felt when I played PB2 campaign) as well as he wouldn't feel like the whole campaign is made by one person whose design ideas are predictable each level due to them having same idea/design/layout basis. You can notice how many famous PB2 map developers make maps really similar to their previous maps, sometimes even copy-like. 42 levels made by such developer wouldn't make a great campaign. That's what I mean.

2. Action choices and dialogue choices and their consequences in the plot. There are games out there with freedom of choice where your character can become good or evil, help or not help somebody. It creates the immersion and makes player feel like he is actually responsible for things he said and choices he made. That's what makes some games great. Some people just don't feel like they think the same way as the plot writer does and want them to think. They want to create their own story. With proper work of triggers and community team it is possible to implement it into PB3 campaign. Yes, it's not easy, but it's rewarding: campaign team will get its fame, community will get a great game experience, Eric will have his money. Everyone's happy. Wouldn't it also be a reason to replay the campaign over and over again to see more choices and alternative story endings? Like in one try you do the typical hero stuff and save everybody and in other try you ally with aliens to do the evil stuff. It would make player spend even more time in game and make his experience better. Besides it would be a great example to PB3 future map developers on how to make GOOD singleplayer maps. It would improve their vision of how a good series of singleplayer maps should look like.

3. Interactive objects. For immersion reasons. You see a closed fridge - press E to open it, press E again to close it. Pretty useless for the plot but it would make the map look more detailed and thought-out. Sometimes player just gets tired of hours of non-stop action and firing and just needs a small break - listen some radio or turn the TV on or just talk to a random drunk guy and listen to his stupid non plot related story about a kid and a dog - any activity to make the game walkthrough more diverse, fun and immersive. 42 levels of non-stop firing left and right would be just boring, don't you think?

4. More variety in type of levels. PB2 campaign feels like you are running in one single building or area the whole time, from one room to another. This should change. For PB3 campaign add a level in building, add a level in the forest, add a level in space station, add a level in an underwater base, add a level where you control some vehicle or robot from remote safe control room, add a level where you are sleeping and seeing nightmares, add a beach episode (joke). In short - be creative, make campaign more diverse. It would be much better than having a campaign where you are running from room A to Room B shooting aliens for hours until the end credits.

5. Better gun customization. Not just upgrade levels 1-2-3 like in PB2. Add more stuff - attachable laser pointer, different scopes (with ability to zoom in), different shooting type (shotgun shot, rifle shot, burst shot, others), different stock and barrel types, removable silencer, chooseable color palette (blue, black, pink, gold). Each upgrade should have some positive effect like: added laser pointer - firing becomes more accurate, added better stock - weaker recoil. Or negative effect: changed firing type from rifle to shotgun burst - more damage but firerate is permanently slowed down and accuracy decreased. This along with armor customization would allow the player to create a character of a dream and have more fun experimenting with gun upgrades.

P.S. Please don't make infinite ammo like in PB2. It's dum.

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Update:

Read my second post V
Last edited by curiosity on 18 May 2022, 23:36, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Ways to make upcoming PB3 campaign better

Postby curiosity » 12 May 2022, 11:52

Update for Eric. Staffs, please don't delete this post otherwise he may not notice the topic update. It's in your interest to have a great PB3 campaign experiencen right? Please send link to this topic to Eric if you want this added to PB3 campaign.

1. Note regarding armor customization: it can work in a similar way to gun customization. Examples: added extra armor to legs - more protection but less mobility, added power exoskeleton for arms - sword attack is stronger and you climb up the ledges faster but you will need power batteries for it to work and arms are less protected after the upgrade.

2. No infinite ammo and ammo crates (drops). The reason is simple - if something in the game is infinite it's more boring to play it. Most games use limited ammo so the player is more motivated to be tactical and PB3 should not be an exception.

Ammo crates (like ones falling from the sky or appearing everywhere on the map in each room) are simply unrealistic and unimmersive and illogical (why would some CS soldiers drop ammo crates everywhere on the map for you to kill them?). There are several ways to to help the player get ammo without ammo crates (drops). I can think of a few (but you can come up with more): loot the dead enemies for ammo or take their guns; secret storage areas on the map that you can hack or use the key (thay you got from killed CS soldier or after looting some desk or safe) to access and grab ammo from there; shop in between levels (like in PB2 campaign); safe civilian areas you come across while playing campaign with shops and workshops (and maybe other places if you think of any new).

3. Add extra idea to the OP: main hero's level ups and skills upgrades. Example: got extra EXP for killing everybody on the map without taking any damage? Spend it to upgrade your runnning speed/jump height, field of view, energy capacity, tougher body, better accuracy and faster reloading, ... and so on.

4. Check this topic ( https://plazmaburst2.com/forum/viewtopi ... 48&t=25804 ) where I also mention better crouching system, walking mode and others. Also perhaps add ability to crawl while you hold X (so you don't just lay down in one place like a bag) and gradual acceleration while running? What about higher jump if you hold S for a moment before jumping?

Eric, you can say it's all unnecessary and too much, bit think about this: if the only difference between PB2 and PB3 is 2.5D effect and better level editor then would you really have a right to call PB3 an entirely new game? Because usually game developers add a lot of new things to their next games and it creates the visual and gameplay difference in the eyes of the player. So to make PB3 great you really need all this, and even more. Think about it unless if you want people to see PB3 as just a PB2 updated version. And remember about what I said about having a team to make the campaign levels (I added more posts so please read https://www.plazmaburst2.com/forum/view ... 17&t=25797 ) - it's also important because nowadays it's hard to impress new players and to fight for audience the game developers try their best to make everything amazing including the campaign. It's 2022 - there are different game quality standards now. There is one more thing - the issue with PB3 graphics (check this - https://www.plazmaburst2.com/forum/view ... 48&t=25821 ). It needs a big graphical overhaul imo.

People waited 7 years for this game, you should try your best to not disappoint them. Otherwise it will die quick and new players won't join the game as there is nothing for them to see and do.

One last edit. Forgot to mention - add an in-map store (not in-game store). I updated my old topic and explained the idea better - https://www.plazmaburst2.com/forum/view ... 48&t=25822
Last edited by curiosity on 12 May 2022, 12:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ways to make upcoming PB3 campaign better (V2 Update)

Postby Gashadokuro » 12 May 2022, 12:34

They would require time to implement and delay the game even more.

Also little point in adding features if the game doesn't center around them.
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Re: Ways to make upcoming PB3 campaign better (V2 Update)

Postby curiosity » 12 May 2022, 12:57

Gashadokuro wrote:They would require time to implement and delay the game even more.

It's 2022. It will be extremely difficult to lure new players to the game if it has nothing that matches todays standards of gaming. If the only difference between PB2 and PB3 will be 2.5D effect - the game will die as quickly as you can imagine and it will end up exactly how PB2 is now - deserted with only 25 players online and almost 0 new cool maps to play.

Gashadokuro wrote:Also little point in adding features if the game doesn't center around them.

That's your opinion. In my opinion all these things matter. PB2 is not just a shooter. There are tons of base/RPG/adventure/others maps in the game and they are even more popular than pew-pew type of maps. They are what makes PB2 the game we know. Also read above - nowadays it takes more effort to impress players, small details matter. Do you want to have a big and stable community in PB3? Then all these update ideas are not something to simply ignore.

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Re: Ways to make upcoming PB3 campaign better (V2 Update)

Postby Gashadokuro » 12 May 2022, 13:21

A game is good because of its core gameplay and elements, people won't play it because you can crawl and have limited ammo.
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Re: Ways to make upcoming PB3 campaign better (V2 Update)

Postby curiosity » 12 May 2022, 14:02

Gashadokuro wrote:A game is good because of its core gameplay and elements, people won't play it because you can crawl and have limited ammo.

It's not about crawling or limited ammo. It's about whole picture, whole impression of the game that is built of different big and small elements together that give lots of possibilities to the players (and map makers in PB case). If it's just simple running and shooting game - it's not something that would satisfy everybody, but only certain amount of players like you. I myself wouldn't want to play a clone of PB2 with 2.5D effect. I want more. Otherwise I don't see a reason to prefer PB3 over some other game. Because I already had enough of PB2 experience for all these years. People get tired of playing one thing for many many years.

LazyRain wrote:Plazma Burst is a shooter. Which comes with level editor. Sandbox really helped the game to stay afloat. In a way. Singleplayer and Custom Maps both makes PB2 the game we know. But they are two different worlds and they suppose to be separated. Would you like to have stryde-snipers into PB3's Campaign? Or get thrown out of Usurp station for being too sus? Or maybe you want to date Avre? Is that what you want to see?

Stryde-sniper? Date Avre? What the hell are you talking about? I suggested basic interactivity: armor and guns customization, dialogue choices, ability to move and crouch in a more effective and diverse way, more ways to finish the level and more types of levels.

If we are talking about plot - there can be levels that are different from PB2 campaign, but only within reason and not too extreme (talking to some NPC is fine, but dating Avre is too much). The idea of getting kicked out from usurper station if you do something wrong (like shoot someone) is actually not bad. I would love to play that. I'm so tired of plain shooters with linear plot where everything is simple and predictable, where you can't decide anything - everything is decided for you. It's called good taste. Something that kids don't have.

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Re: Ways to make upcoming PB3 campaign better (V2 Update)

Postby Nozzle » 12 May 2022, 14:06

didn't expect for Version 2 tho, also, you're really smart
We do a little waiting for pb2.5/3.

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Re: Ways to make upcoming PB3 campaign better (V2 Update)

Postby curiosity » 12 May 2022, 14:10

Nozzle wrote:didn't expect for Version 2 tho, also, you're really smart

Lmao, thanks.

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Re: Ways to make upcoming PB3 campaign better (V2 Update)

Postby Gashadokuro » 12 May 2022, 14:41

Eric is more active than he looks, and the community is pretty small, so there's a good chance he sees your topics. You should calm down since it makes you look entitled for his attention.

1 - A campaign with more than one head developer would be weird, since it wouldn't be streamlined. I'm not sure where you got your repetitive / predictable complaint from. Eric will probably take suggestions anyways, since his polls ended 50/50.

2 - Not necessarily bad, extra endings can be a fun extra. I doubt Eric would make extra levels for an alternate story though. Also, bold of you to assume this alone would warrant "fame, a great game" and "money" for Eric, but who knows.

3 - You can press E. From all the possible examples, why would you write about listening to a drunk npc.

4 - There's cars, mechas, playing as Noir Lime, as androids, etc. In custom levels you can also drive helicopters, drones, etc. PB2 has parkour maps, saws, zombies, team vs team, roleplay maps, etc. There's little to worry about here.

5 - It's a 2D game so these won't be as epic as in your 3D games.
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Re: Ways to make upcoming PB3 campaign better (V2 Update)

Postby curiosity » 12 May 2022, 15:38

Gashadokuro wrote:1 - A campaign with more than one head developer would be weird, since it wouldn't be streamlined. I'm not sure where you got your repetitive / predictable complaint from. Eric will probably take suggestions anyways, since his polls ended 50/50.

2 - Not necessarily bad, extra endings can be a fun extra. I doubt Eric would make extra levels for an alternate story though. Also, bold of you to assume this alone would warrant "fame, a great game" and "money" for Eric, but who knows.

3 - You can press E. From all the possible examples, why would you write about listening to a drunk npc.

4 - There's cars, mechas, playing as Noir Lime, as androids, etc. In custom levels you can also drive helicopters, drones, etc. PB2 has parkour maps, saws, zombies, team vs team, roleplay maps, etc. There's little to worry about here.

5 - It's a 2D game so these won't be as epic as in your 3D games.

1 - Eric will lead the development and say his yes or no to each map layout. The development team will also communicate with each other to avoid mistakes. So the difference between levels design won't be too big.

When some level developer makes series of maps, if you look closely enough to notice - the style and elements are very similar and predictable. Sometimes to the point when you lose wish to play them all since they are very alike. Good examples would be Nehil and Krutz. Check them and study this issue - you'll understand, maybe.

2 - Extra levels would be a sign of quality.

Great campaign is not something that will warrant anything but people from outside of this community will most likely judge the game by the campaign. Many PB2 players played campaign first and then decided if they want or not want to join multiplayer and stay in the community. What makes you think the situation in PB3 will be different?

3 - For better understanding of diverse gameplay. Maybe I should have used other example.

4 - If we are talking about PB2 campaign, it's not important whenever you are on your feet, in a mech or playing as Proxy - you do the same thing: running from Room A to Room B shooting left and right. That's what I mean by lack of deversity.

How can diversity actually work:
Level 1. You are coming to the past and discuss your next steps with the guys (Noir Lime and Proxy) where you can choose different dialogue options while talking. Depending on your choice the next level would be either one location or another.
Level 2. You do your typical pew-pew stuff. Game teaches you basic mechanics.
Level 3. Something is broken in your secret bunker where you're hiding- there is no electricity. You need to fix it.
Level 4. You've found some new gun. How about you test it out in a shooting range in the basement so the game teaches you how to use different attachments (scopes, stocks, silencers) to it and how you need to sit down to aim better.
Level 5. Stealth mission in a huge CS base. Be careful - if you raise the alarm, 200 CS soldiers will r*pe you.
Level 6. Pew-pew escape level with explosions and epic sh*t.
Level 7. During escape you got your armor broken. How about you go to some Noir Lime's old pal and choose yourself a new one and learn to upgrade it?
...
Level 99. (Think of something yourself).

5. It will be epic. You just don't understand.

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Re: Ways to make upcoming PB3 campaign better (V2 Update)

Postby Gashadokuro » 12 May 2022, 16:04

1 - It sounds more like you want some disjointed Frankenstein map which won't be preditactable or make much sense. You made a claim about PB levels being repetitive / predictable, I asked for examples, and you replied with nothing besides "check x and study them".

2 - What prompted people to join the community was the game, its mechanics and the options its engine offers to players, as showcased by the campaign - not necessarily its plot, or your plot with choices. Again, bold claim.

3 -

4 - This reads as you wanting to turn a shooting platformer into an RPG with tutorials most people will skip, along trivial tasks such as your bunker's power issues. You should watch some game design videos, not everything has to be explicit.

5 - A 2D game will be more limited in terms of movement and space than a 3D game, and if anything gun choices will be more interesting than their possible modifications, not that the latter would be bad or anything. An example of this is Tactical Weapon Pack, the guns are what is interesting, not necessarily their modifications, which are but a mere bonus.

"I don't understand" -> I perfectly understand that you're getting hung up on minor additions, and treat them as revolutionary, which you shouldn't.
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Re: Ways to make upcoming PB3 campaign better (V2 Update)

Postby Nozzle » 12 May 2022, 16:46

curiosity wrote:
Gashadokuro wrote:1 - A campaign with more than one head developer would be weird, since it wouldn't be streamlined. I'm not sure where you got your repetitive / predictable complaint from. Eric will probably take suggestions anyways, since his polls ended 50/50.

2 - Not necessarily bad, extra endings can be a fun extra. I doubt Eric would make extra levels for an alternate story though. Also, bold of you to assume this alone would warrant "fame, a great game" and "money" for Eric, but who knows.

3 - You can press E. From all the possible examples, why would you write about listening to a drunk npc.

4 - There's cars, mechas, playing as Noir Lime, as androids, etc. In custom levels you can also drive helicopters, drones, etc. PB2 has parkour maps, saws, zombies, team vs team, roleplay maps, etc. There's little to worry about here.

5 - It's a 2D game so these won't be as epic as in your 3D games.

1 - Eric will lead the development and say his yes or no to each map layout. The development team will also communicate with each other to avoid mistakes. So the difference between levels design won't be too big.

When some level developer makes series of maps, if you look closely enough to notice - the style and elements are very similar and predictable. Sometimes to the point when you lose wish to play them all since they are very alike. Good examples would be Nehil and Krutz. Check them and study this issue - you'll understand, maybe.

2 - Extra levels would be a sign of quality.

Great campaign is not something that will warrant anything but people from outside of this community will most likely judge the game by the campaign. Many PB2 players played campaign first and then decided if they want or not want to join multiplayer and stay in the community. What makes you think the situation in PB3 will be different?

3 - For better understanding of diverse gameplay. Maybe I should have used other example.

4 - If we are talking about PB2 campaign, it's not important whenever you are on your feet, in a mech or playing as Proxy - you do the same thing: running from Room A to Room B shooting left and right. That's what I mean by lack of deversity.

How can diversity actually work:
Level 1. You are coming to the past and discuss your next steps with the guys (Noir Lime and Proxy) where you can choose different dialogue options while talking. Depending on your choice the next level would be either one location or another.
Level 2. You do your typical pew-pew stuff. Game teaches you basic mechanics.
Level 3. Something is broken in your secret bunker where you're hiding- there is no electricity. You need to fix it.
Level 4. You've found some new gun. How about you test it out in a shooting range in the basement so the game teaches you how to use different attachments (scopes, stocks, silencers) to it and how you need to sit down to aim better.
Level 5. Stealth mission in a huge CS base. Be careful - if you raise the alarm, 200 CS soldiers will r*pe you.
Level 6. Pew-pew escape level with explosions and epic sh*t.
Level 7. During escape you got your armor broken. How about you go to some Noir Lime's old pal and choose yourself a new one and learn to upgrade it?
...
Level 99. (Think of something yourself).

5. It will be epic. You just don't understand.


Dude, you're smart x2 how do you even add some ideas, suggestions? since my brain is stoopeed, i couldn't wrote those, also ur thinking really smart, and nice.
We do a little waiting for pb2.5/3.

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Re: Ways to make upcoming PB3 campaign better (V2 Update)

Postby LazyRain » 12 May 2022, 17:11

curiosity wrote:This is continuation of my previous topic (better plot and levels design) - https://plazmaburst2.com/forum/viewtopi ... 48&t=25775

[very long text]


2 - Plot can be made well but there's really no point to have some actions which influence on how the game will end. Why do we need make choices during the game? It's a shooter. We just kill things or do some parkour or both. That's how this genre of games works. People doesn't plays them for the ending.

3 - Sure. Like additional buttons and terminals which you don't neccessary have to push. Or some additional boxes, furniture and other things you can grab or kick around. Or some walls you don't need to destroy to proceed a level. Other than that? Why?

4 - Keep in mind, that PB2 is more than 10 years old flash game. Back then it was nice. Levels aren't really the same. Lack of different "materials" is in the game due to bad flash optimization. Eric tried to make levels different as much as possible. You could notice that if you played at least fttp.

5 - Guns attachemets are possible but I don't remember if Eric said anything about that. Also there could be a feature where guns looks differently after upgrades like in fttp. However there's an issue with too many sprites for both cases. Because there won't be just 10 assault rifles for the entire game and Eric for sure will not want to flood his game with bunch of files for just 1 gun.

P.S. You need to check Eric's posts in Twitter since the beginnig and read them carefully. You would know much more (including infinite ammo question) and would not write long unnecessary texts.
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Re: Ways to make upcoming PB3 campaign better (V2 Update)

Postby curiosity » 12 May 2022, 17:52

Gashadokuro wrote:1 - It sounds more like you want some disjointed Frankenstein map which won't be preditactable or make much sense. You made a claim about PB levels being repetitive / predictable, I asked for examples, and you replied with nothing besides "check x and study them".

2 - What prompted people to join the community was the game, its mechanics and the options its engine offers to players, as showcased by the campaign - not necessarily its plot, or your plot with choices. Again, bold claim.

3 -

4 - This reads as you wanting to turn a shooting platformer into an RPG with tutorials most people will skip, along trivial tasks such as your bunker's power issues. You should watch some game design videos, not everything has to be explicit.

5 - A 2D game will be more limited in terms of movement and space than a 3D game, and if anything gun choices will be more interesting than their possible modifications, not that the latter would be bad or anything. An example of this is Tactical Weapon Pack, the guns are what is interesting, not necessarily their modifications, which are but a mere bonus.

"I don't understand" -> I perfectly understand that you're getting hung up on minor additions, and treat them as revolutionary, which you shouldn't.

1 - What Frankenstein? Why do you bring things to absurd, to extreme? It will be fine. Do you not know how map making works? Talented map makers aren't r*tards, and Eric who will lead them is not dumb either.

I pointed those two guys so you check their maps and understand what repetitive design is. Did you do it? Because it seems like you don't notice how almost whole PB2 campaign is just one piece of concrete walls and base background. When all your maps have similar walls, similar backgrounds, similar everything - it's a sign that you have problems with creativity.

2 - The campaign creates the first impression of the game. Campaign is not just mechanics. It's also visuals, effects, plot, emotions while playing, everything else. All elements matter. They show what game is like. I myself decided to join PB2 multiplayer because I enjoyed the campaign. If I didn't enjoy it I wouldn't be here. Some people may have skipped the campaign and joined the community right away - that's also possible and depends on the person.

4. It's not RPG. It's still a shooter but with better interactivity and less linear plot. Again - you bring my words to absurd and then refute them yourself.

How do you skip something unskippable? Even if some stuff is skipped - there is other one.

"You should watch some game design videos" - lmao, sir are you going to teach me what is a good game design? Don't make me laugh, okay?

5. There are two types of players - those who switch guns all the time and those who stick to one gun which look and characteristics match their taste. I'm the one who prefer one well customized gun or a couple. 2D or 3D is not important to me at all. You seem to belong to the first type.

Yeah, you don't understand. Not that I expected you to anyway...

Nozzle wrote:Dude, you're smart x2 how do you even add some ideas, suggestions? since my brain is stoopeed, i couldn't wrote those, also ur thinking really smart, and nice.

Oh my god, you're making me *blush*. Stahp

For real though, I just play great games and pay attention to details that made them great. Then I use that information to judge other games.

LazyRain wrote:2 - Plot can be made well but there's really no point to have some actions which influence on how the game will end. Why do we need make choices during the game? It's a shooter. We just kill things or do some parkour or both. That's how this genre of games works. People doesn't plays them for the ending.

3 - Sure. Like additional buttons and terminals which you don't neccessary have to push. Or some additional boxes, furniture and other things you can grab or kick around. Or some walls you don't need to destroy to proceed a level. Other than that? Why?

4 - Keep in mind, that PB2 is more than 10 years old flash game. Back then it was nice. Levels aren't really the same. Lack of different "materials" is in the game due to bad flash optimization. Eric tried to make levels different as much as possible. You could notice that if you played at least fttp.

5 - Guns attachemets are possible but I don't remember if Eric said anything about that. Also there could be a feature where guns looks differently after upgrades like in fttp. However there's an issue with too many sprites for both cases. Because there won't be just 10 assault rifles for the entire game and Eric for sure will not want to flood his game with bunch of files for just 1 gun.

P.S. You need to check Eric's posts in Twitter since the beginnig and read them carefully. You would know much more (including infinite ammo question) and would not write long unnecessary texts.

2 - It's going to be boring sh*t. For you maybe it's not.
3 - For fun.
4 - I know why PB2 campaign was like that. This topic is a suggestion to PB3 one. Also PB2 campaign levels are very similar.
5 - Eric can decide how many guns and sprites he wants to include himself. Adding a silencer or laser pointer png to a gun is not a big deal imo. They may look similar afterall. Some guns can just be unmodifiable. In short - there are ways to deal with all this.

Show me what tweets are you talking about. Or are you like Blake going to point me to Twitter and expect me to find something you want me to find? As far as I understand Eric did not decide the ammo question yet. He even responded to my other topic ("Why did half of you voted for Eric to design the campaign?") and said he'd test it both ways, therefore I added that point to the OP to help him make up his mind (read second post after OP, there is more info).

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Re: Ways to make upcoming PB3 campaign better (V2 Update)

Postby Nozzle » 12 May 2022, 19:25

Oh my god, you're making me *blush*. Stahp

For real though, I just play great games and pay attention to details that made them great. Then I use that information to judge other games.
Oh, this sounds simple pfff
We do a little waiting for pb2.5/3.

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Re: Ways to make upcoming PB3 campaign better (V2 Update)

Postby Nozzle » 12 May 2022, 19:26

**Oh my god, you're making me *blush*. Stahp

For real though, I just play great games and pay attention to details that made them great. Then I use that information to judge other games.**

Oh, this sounds simple pfff
We do a little waiting for pb2.5/3.

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Re: Ways to make upcoming PB3 campaign better (V2 Update)

Postby LazyRain » 13 May 2022, 18:59

curiosity wrote:2 - It's going to be boring sh*t. For you maybe it's not.


Well, if you like games full of plot twists with three different colored endings, you won't find all that here. Eric is not gonna do anything complex to the plot, but unlike in PB2 it will exist. Maximum that could happen is two endings.

curiosity wrote:4 - I know why PB2 campaign was like that. This topic is a suggestion to PB3 one. Also PB2 campaign levels are very similar.


But it sounds like you think that Eric didn't learn anything new besides Falsh after 14 years since fttp. And you forcefully takes PB2 as an example like it's PB3 already.

curiosity wrote:5 - Eric can decide how many guns and sprites he wants to include himself. Adding a silencer or laser pointer png to a gun is not a big deal imo. They may look similar afterall. Some guns can just be unmodifiable. In short - there are ways to deal with all this.


Also there are a lot of different guns besides those that can have a silencer or laser pointer.

curiosity wrote:Show me what tweets are you talking about. Or are you like Blake going to point me to Twitter and expect me to find something you want me to find? As far as I understand Eric did not decide the ammo question yet. He even responded to my other topic ("Why did half of you voted for Eric to design the campaign?") and said he'd test it both ways, therefore I added that point to the OP to help him make up his mind (read second post after OP, there is more info).


No and no. Eric decided what he gonna do with ammo back in 2016 if not earlier. Just ask Google. You will find answer on your qustion about ammo in 5 minutes.
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Re: Ways to make upcoming PB3 campaign better (V2 Update)

Postby curiosity » 13 May 2022, 19:32

LazyRain wrote:Well, if you like games full of plot twists with three different colored endings, you won't find all that here. Eric is not gonna do anything complex to the plot, but unlike in PB2 it will exist. Maximum that could happen is two endings.

I didn't ask for lots of plot twists nor did I specify how many endings should it have. So you are against 3 endings, but 2 endings is okay to you?

LazyRain wrote:But it sounds like you think that Eric didn't learn anything new besides Falsh after 14 years since fttp. And you forcefully takes PB2 as an example like it's PB3 already.

His today custom maps are not great either. They show what to possibly expect from him as a designer of PB3 campaign.

LazyRain wrote:Also there are a lot of different guns besides those that can have a silencer or laser pointer.

Silencer model can be the same for few or many guns. Laser pointer can work even without extra sprites, just add the laser effect itself. Also I'm not even sure if the game campaign really needs tons of guns. There can be just certain amount, not too big. You don't need whole PB1/PB2/PB3/custom-player-made arsenal to play the story mode.

LazyRain wrote:No and no. Eric decided what he gonna do with ammo back in 2016 if not earlier. Just ask Google. You will find answer on your qustion about ammo in 5 minutes.


Eric Gurt wrote:All you say is making sense.

Ammo could be questionable in my opinion but it is still something to test both ways once campaign will be more or less complete (though, to be honest, I don't see random supply crates/pickups that give player what he needs or expected to need the most would make much sense as well).

See? He is not sure yet.

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Re: Ways to make upcoming PB3 campaign better (V2 Update)

Postby LazyRain » 13 May 2022, 19:52

curiosity wrote:I didn't ask for lots of plot twists nor did I specify how many endings should it have.


Yeah? What is this then?

curiosity wrote:2. Action choices and dialogue choices and their consequences in the plot. There are games out there with freedom of choice where your character can become good or evil, help or not help somebody. It creates the immersion and makes player feel like he is actually responsible for things he said and choices he made. That's what makes some games great. Some people just don't feel like they think the same way as the plot writer does and want them to think. They want to create their own story.


Sounds like you want it badly.
As for consiquences of player's action. They dont have to be deep. And if players want to create their own story, they can create their own campaigns.
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Re: Ways to make upcoming PB3 campaign better (V2 Update)

Postby curiosity » 13 May 2022, 20:38

LazyRain wrote:Yeah? What is this then?

Do you know what plot twist is?

LazyRain wrote:As for consiquences of player's action. They dont have to be deep.

Yes.

LazyRain wrote:And if players want to create their own story, they can create their own campaigns.

What if I want to create it in the campaign?

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