(R) Revivalist Phase ll Topic 2: Ping Limits (R)

[spirit9871]

Before we begin this topic, we just wanted to thank all of you for your amazing replies on the first Revivalist topic (ranking system). Because of you guys, we were able to make a solid video regarding its flaws and possible changes, which even got the attention of Gurt himself. You can see the video here for those of you who don't know what we're talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFWscXGHxAs

That being said, let's begin with a topic many of you have definitely complained at least once in your multiplayer experiences: Ping Limits.

A brief explanation for those of you who are unfamiliar with them: ping limits were implemented by Eric around the summer of 2013 to combat the constant lag issues players had to face. This system boots off players that have a ping value over a certain amount (currently 180) from games they lag out from.

This ping limit has both benefits and drawbacks. Beneficially, the ping limit system allows more consistent gameplay, where players "eat" (do not register hits from enemies) less, and players are motivated to play on their respective servers.

However, the negative effects are just as impactful on the community. While ping limits do motivate people to play on their servers to avoid lag being a problem, the servers aren't all the same. California has a rich diversity of maps and is most populated, with Washington being second and more focused on competitive gameplay, and Europe being third (mostly deserted). The result of this is that certain players simply have no one else to play with and give up on playing the game. This definitely contributed to the major population decline we've noticed over the past few years, and is worsened when players now have to wait 20 seconds to a minute to rejoin a game they may have been booted for due to a quick lag spike (at times, only to see their spots in the match had been taken from them).

Overall, this is a topic that has been under heavy debate. So we would like to know what are your thoughts on the matter and are there any improvements you yourself would suggest on the system?

Please remember to be respectful of each other's opinions and always strive to find the best solutions possible. Whatever information here we will compile into one major video (similar to the last Revivalist analysis video) and hopefully, we can show Gurt what we truly think regarding his changes.

You do not need to be a Revivalist to participate in the discussion, though if you feel you want to be classified as one, message Mingo1 via PMs.

Thank you.

[Silent Aurora]

I want the ping limit to be completely removed.

Why? Because it has caused many issues with people that have high ping. First of all, they can't even have the chance of competing for top 100 or play competively, giving a disadvantage for 'laggers' and not the best experience for them. The only reason why we have a ping limit is because low ping users find it unfair that 'laggers' have an advantage since they can't be killed easily meaning they are like immortal. No, I am a lagger myself and it has nothing to do with us being hard to kill. Low ping players are hard to kill just like high ping users, since their connection is faster, they would technically be seconds ahead of the lagger while on the laggers screen, it may show them.

When creating a match, you have the choice of setting your own ping limit, so if you don't like to play with laggers simply add your own ping limit or set one in-game. There, that's a simple solution instead of adding a default ping limit which creates segregation in the community.

[zakrzew]

Well in the past i was totally against the idea of removing ping limits. Now i think it would be a good change.
In my opinion to fight with a lagger (high ping not just fps drop) its true that you need certain kind of skill which is not crucial while fighting against low-pingers, but it's not something very hard. Even fighting with someone with 300 ping or whatever doesn't need to be "random".
And what's important too, it would bring new players to ranked, and maybe looking for someone who can give you ppp wouldn't take so much time anymore.
+ 2 last SA's sentences about ping limit.

[Sniper J]

The ping limit is honestly stupid. I mean, it keeps laggers out, but there will always be laggers and you have to learn to live with it. The current ping limit restricts some players from even connecting to ranked matches at all, so it might discourage new players from even trying to play. As many of you have mentioned, removing the ping limit would allow more players to actually compete with each other, which is honestly what we need. The diversity in players competing against each other has died because the ping limit restricts some players from even joining a match.

As for people who dislike the laggers that waltz into matches, if they can't beat them, then they should just leave the match and find another one. Or maybe, there should be no set ping limit, but if a player starts a ranked map, that player should have the ability to set the ping limit for that match, therefore, that player can keep out people with certain ping levels or even bring them in.

We need more diversity when it comes to players competing against each other, because competing against the same people over and over again, every day, has honestly become boring. We want to encourage new players to compete, in order to bring this game back to life, or some form of life. Remove the ping limit.

[iHateHackers]

I agree with everyone. The ping limit is really stupid. The worst thing is when you might join a match and your ping is like 40 and you lag out instantly because of a lag spike. I cannot deal with these spikes because you usually lag out.

[master derk300]

I just wanted to add that when your ping is lower than others your weapon reload faster than the laggers. You can see this delay in weapon in maps like snipers, rails and ray wars , For that reason people with low ping have an advantage against people with high ping. (The are 2 type of lag the bad one and the good one)

In california server I have like 180-210 ping so for that reason I can't play rank mode in this server. In the other hand in wash I have like 140-160.

[Hikarikaze]

Having a default ping limit is idiotic if you ask me. Right now, the Top 100 isn't defined by skill, but by location. The further you are away from any of the servers, the less chance you have to at least try to make it on the Top 100. With a limit, ranked matches aren't exactly a competition of skill, but a competition of how close you are to the server, with those in areas like Asia being automatically excluded from joining ranked matches. The ping limit singles out people just as much as it eliminates the advantages that people with higher ping have.

The solution is simple: add an option to set the ping limit like SA said to allow anyone to compete. There's no need to make ranked matches exclusive to those lucky enough to be near a server.

[spirit9871]

Interesting. So many of us here generally agree about the same point and on the same solution. So how about we expand this question even further:

One of the interesting ideas Tempus has suggested 2.5 having is an actual matchmaking system to match up people in equal PP brackets for competitive games, rather than people being able to just jump out of games they might be doing bad at and into games they can easily win (think CS:GO competitive).

Let's say this system is implemented. How do you guys think a ping limit should work there? Should there be a host system, where the first person who starts the matchmaking lobby should be able to choose the ping limit? Perhaps a set ping limit higher than our current one (like 250 to 300)? Or should there still be no ping limit at all?

[Hikarikaze]

Should there be a host system, where the first person who starts the matchmaking lobby should be able to choose the ping limit? Perhaps a set ping limit higher than our current one (like 250 to 300)? Or should there still be no ping limit at all?

Increasing the set ping limit isn't going to help in my opinion. People who still don't land within the ping limit will start to ask to increase the ping limit to favor them as well, resulting in a chain of endlessly increasing the ping limit to satisfy those who somehow exceed the ping limit.

Having the option to set the ping limit will offer control and hosting freedom for those who don't want people with certain ping to join. People can always set the ping limit to something high for those who want to join but have a high ping, while others can set it to something low for their own personal needs.

[timer15]

I want the ping limit to be completely removed.

Why? Because it has caused many issues with people that have high ping. First of all, they can't even have the chance of competing for top 100 or play competively, giving a disadvantage for 'laggers' and not the best experience for them. The only reason why we have a ping limit is because low ping users find it unfair that 'laggers' have an advantage since they can't be killed easily meaning they are like immortal. No, I am a lagger myself and it has nothing to do with us being hard to kill. Low ping players are hard to kill just like high ping users, since their connection is faster, they would technically be seconds ahead of the lagger while on the laggers screen, it may show them.

When creating a match, you have the choice of setting your own ping limit, so if you don't like to play with laggers simply add your own ping limit or set one in-game. There, that's a simple solution instead of adding a default ping limit which creates segregation in the community.

The ping limits is Honsetly Pretty Stupid,Because when Player want play a map,the ping limits reject him,and the laggers... He need to go to other map or enter again the map,the laggers is making a big problem and it caused a Issues for Us!
The player must press enter and type numbers with '' - ''
So because it makes a lot of bugs in the game, I think Eric is required to remove it, you can not play like that I myself can not play unrated maps so I do not get a high rating without leaving the game
I hope that the future will be not that again

[Basilix]

I would like that the system should be turned off, beacuse it causes some lag and bad issues, it also stops you for fighting.

[Zemai]

One of the interesting ideas Tempus has suggested 2.5 having is an actual matchmaking system to match up people in equal PP brackets for competitive games, rather than people being able to just jump out of games they might be doing bad at and into games they can easily win (think CS:GO competitive).

I like the concept, but I disagree. I find that one of the things that keeps me still playing this game is the freedom to play whatever map I want, with whoever I want, whenever I want, and be able to play however I want. I also feel that having a matchmaking system like this, in which maps/players are selected randomly and that attempts to equalize skill in matches according to PP will give a somewhat COD feeling to the game.... Let's just say that a lot of the players in this game already remind me of COD players and I'd like it to at least stay how it is if not get better. I also feel (I'm not sure this is exactly whats being suggested here) that many people will complain about being sent to a map that they aren't good at or being setup with players who destroyed them in-game.

[Lord Blue Blood]

I'd say ping limits should be completely removed from the game.
Why? because it's one if not the main reason why pb2 began dying and players started to leave.
Also you can set ping limits when you make a game but "low ping players" argue that sometimes when you join a game you will get spawn killed by a lagger because you didnt know the ping limit in the game so i suggest this idea : http://prntscr.com/a9ddxn Now you have no excuse.

Interesting. So many of us here generally agree about the same point and on the same solution. So how about we expand this question even further:

One of the interesting ideas Tempus has suggested 2.5 having is an actual matchmaking system to match up people in equal PP brackets for competitive games, rather than people being able to just jump out of games they might be doing bad at and into games they can easily win (think CS:GO competitive).

Let's say this system is implemented. How do you guys think a ping limit should work there? Should there be a host system, where the first person who starts the matchmaking lobby should be able to choose the ping limit? Perhaps a set ping limit higher than our current one (like 250 to 300)? Or should there still be no ping limit at all?

Getting different amounts of PP because the player has more/less than you do is a marxist system, if a player is more skilled than you are and he kills you and gets pp, deal with it until you start getting some skill m8.
But i have an idea, instead of "stealing" pp from each other, i think a better system would be close to the kills system, since you cant get your kills removed, i want pp not to be lost either when somebody kills you. so it would seem like a race and people's pp will always be expanding and none will loose pp, only get pp, and the more you play the more people you kill the more pp you will get equally from every player no matter how much pp they have and how skilled they are.

[lordblueblet]

What I'd say is ping limited is something that should me removed
Perfect example:Spartan-138:Amazing player and my friend and sad is that he lives in Sri lanka which is in Between Asia and Australia.His ping is 300-500 On all servers
And top 100 is bad.People who deserve top 20 are:Stenkberk,Sniper J and 1 or 2 more players
I actually was so into top 100 and that stuff,but when look at it...Is just...atrocious.I actually got top 30 players and my friend Gajacar25 who is good as me if not better,got 40th even tho he should be same as me which is 27th
Alot of people also farmed top 20:Vikor(i think thats how you spell it),Acellamy,etc..
Also people like Killer174 etc got top 20 in a few months and they started in late 2014 and mid 2015 and they have top 20,Unlike me,gaja,etc. played this game since 2011-2012 still aren't in top 20/40/45

[Silent Aurora]

I think it's best to completely remove PP system, it's been modified multiple times and have failed. What needs to happen is the KD + KDR system and have similar logs like the PPP logs we currently have, that way not only would staff catch farmers but also users who can simply report it.

Match-making shouldn't be based on skill, I agree with zem, there should be a sense of freedom who you play with. If noobs play with noobs, how would they get better?

[IcYiGodZ]

YYES!!! someone who finally gets it. just have the kills system with the kill logs on profile

[ezio auditor]

So Ping limits.

the problem with ping limits is mostly in Ranked matches since the limit is preset with 180. and honestly the last time i've seen alot of people with a ping like that was before the data loss. so i have some options of what we could do.

1:Remove the ping system
-removing the system would stop it from kicking players with a high ping and allow more people to play in ranked matches.
on the down side though if someone who has a high ping joins a match people would be angry since there's a "lagger" in the match and he would be harder to kill then others.

2: have a more controlled ping system.
-to have a more controlled ping system would mean that if people didnt want a ping limit on their match they could make it so, doing this would help control if you want laggers or not in that match.
-on the downside though laggers would still be able to join the matches that dont have a ping limit so people would still be angry about laggers

3: Just remove the ping limit from ranked and approved
you can keep the ping limit system but just increase the one set for ranked matches so more people can join ranked matches. since i see alot of skilled people but their ping is just a bit over 180 its unfair.
the downside to this is that laggers once again would still be present

One of the interesting ideas Tempus has suggested 2.5 having is an actual matchmaking system to match up people in equal PP brackets for competitive games, rather than people being able to just jump out of games they might be doing bad at and into games they can easily win (think CS:GO competitive).


Let's say this system is implemented. How do you guys think a ping limit should work there? Should there be a host system, where the first person who starts the matchmaking lobby should be able to choose the ping limit? Perhaps a set ping limit higher than our current one (like 250 to 300)? Or should there still be no ping limit at all?

i have 2 things to say to this ^^
1: i dont really think that system would work since if people have to leave they can just leave with this if someone needs to leave the match may get messed up.
2: Ping limits still shouldnt be used in that system since it will kick people out that will mess up the match

So in conclusion no matter what we do with the ping limit laggers will always be a problem you cant get rid of them 100% so people just have to adapt to them and stop fussing about laggers

[phoenixdemon]

The ping limits are definitely a problem and I think its time to get rid of them.

The preset ping limit of 180 on ranked matches keeps out some people who have 200+ ping( and I see a lot of those in the California server.) Those players miss out on a chance for player points which shrinks the amount of competitive players tremendously.

The issue with "laggers" is something that people are just going to have to deal with. I personally don't have much trouble dealing with most players that are lagging, but the people should have the right to attempt to gain player points, so why should they be denied that.

To be honest the ping limits are completely obsilete because of the miniscule size of the community. Ping limits were created back when this game had thousands of players, but now the community has shrunk significantly and they aren't doing anything but segregating the community even more.

[pwnrofpwnrz]

Ping limits- a great idea in my opinion

Being a good part into pb2- no

The ping limits initial idea that it would prevent the laggers from being in matches if surpassed is good but I feel it was executed poorly. There are only 3 servers on this game and all very widespread from each other. This does not make it easy for players across the world to have a good connection to these servers than rather someone who lives very close to the server. TWO of these servers are actually in America with one only being in Ukraine.

The problem is that these servers are not widespread and do not balance on keeping players worldwide having a server to connect to with a good connection.

I do not think there should be ping limits or at least in its current state unless more widespread servers can be added or increase the strength of the server signals.
Yes, I know that would cost money and all that other stuff but with the current state of servers, a ping limit is not really a fair choice for players who have to choose a server location far from them

[sir chief]

i agree i cant wait befor the new update eric is doing a well job keep the hard work eric