General Discussion related to the Plazma Burst game series.


Postby king4k » 13 March 2020, 15:11

For the PDF version, see:

We were extremely excited about the advent of the big update in Oct 10, 2019. Ranging from the extension of the trigger types, the custom decoration to the new multiplayer server, we firmly believed that these tremendous and innovative works were bound to bring pb2 a new life, especially in terms of multiplayer games, the player amount of which would have been soar, but the fact is that there exists a big loss of players soon after the update.

As you can see, since 2011 until the year before the data leak incident, or even after a few years (maybe 2018), plazma burst 2 is aimed to be towards competitive, PvP styled matches, some skillful fttb/ctp/etc map that requires some mind twisting to win the game. And a lot of technique usage as known as tactics, pre-aim, timing training and some other useful strategies strive the players to practice their skill over and over again in order to beat more players. It is those unique features that differentiates PB2 from other FPS flash games--which are easily to be bored (For instance, Raze series, Strike Force Heroes series) and it is also those that lead to the average player age relatively high.


Statistic 1:

It can be seen from the report that during the last 3 months, about 40% of the new players comes from, whose total visits is just the half of PB2, and only contributes 1.65% of new players.
By these statistics we can deduce that the present income of the players is too low. Before effective methods taken place to appeal more players, it is wise to maintain the current players.

Statistic 2:

After the new server comes out, the players in the server stepped down, we recorded the players in the server from 12 Feb to 18 Feb and the average player number was 59 compared to over 120 in and before 10 Oct.
From that statistics we can see that although the number of players increased not soon the new server came out, it cooled down 4 months later, which reflects a considerable loss.

Statistic 3:
These people were legend players but they haven't got any rank game records for 3 months. Moreover, most of whom doesn’t have any custom maps, meaning they only intrigued in server games.

From the 3 statistics it can be concluded that the income of the number of players is substantially
low in the past 3 months, and the new server directly led to a large number of core players unwilling to
play the game, and subsequently contributed to the loss of server

Let’s take some instance. The new netcode is based on the hit detection on every client screen. You would ask that what would be the problem on it? Actually, it does a lot.
First and foremost, we had to introduce a new term which is called “ping difference” before we are going ahead onto the topic. We have a scenario which is you meeting a lower ping player (imagine you had like 300 ping meanwhile the other player has 200 ping).
When the low latency player self-boost itself, meanwhile at the higher latency ping player screen, he doesn’t seem to self-boost and all in sudden, the low latency ping player teleported onto midair and you are dead.
In this scenario we can easily find out that the lower latency ping players have the advantage on killing higher latency ping players. As the standard on killing player greatly decreases on low ping users, but the lack of server durability and the performance will force those legends left the game.

It should be noted that the new gameplay does not merely disappoints core members, but for all of the players. Due to the ‘’ping difference’’, any fast-paced movements, such as chasing, shooting in a rifle will also cause the chaos, for that reason, players can’t predict the bullet as well as the position of the enemies. for that reason, a host of maps disappeared, leaving the games which don’t need skills and chase.
As the new gameplay is established, most of the old and classic maps that every old player must familiar on are unusable, for instance, zombie maps, 7 vs 1 maps. Majority of the maps are used or designed cleverly for old gameplay matches. But these classic and memorable maps are instantly thrown into trash as new gameplay changes how those maps should be served.
The following statistic reveals this point.

We can see that maps which don’t need tactics occupy more than 75% of the total maps in the new server. This fact strengthens the hypothetic that the server will be dominated by those maps, which not attribute the competitiveness of the game, thus makes players bored.

To be honest, resurrection is considered a good term in Oxford or Cambridge dictionary, but sadly in plazma burst 2, it is the most annoying feature for high latency ping players. In old gameplay, predicting or calculating when the higher or lower latency player passed through the point and shoot to get a kill is far more better than the new gameplay, had to make sure if he is really dead or even no chance to get it. The death all in sudden and see the corpse pop up and stay alive will dishearten a lot of players and annoys them all.
You said if the ping is about 200, this phenomenon will not happen, but under the current circumstance, it can’t apply to most of players. As the statistic follows:

More than 80% of the players are not American, which will absolutely result to the huge gap between everyone, and consequently leads to the ‘ping different’ and resurrection. In that case, this problem, to some extent, can’t be resolved in the new server.

Recent days, we held a poll in Discord, the result of which as follows:

Most players are complaining about ping limit, which could reflect two facts. First, it enhances the point that the ping gap is severe, or at least, higher than 200 ping, and consequently makes it unfeasible to make everyone eliminates the resurrection. Second, we noticed the ping was raised to 350 soon after the poll, so we did the research a few days later but found that there was not a prominent raise in the approved map, as the statistic below:

Consequently, the ping limit can’t be the main factor of the decline of the players.
Also, the 2nd, 3th, 4th opinions in the poll reflect the issues we raise in this report also represent a host of players.

Actually, both two netcodes, when the pings are low, are fair. Because the game could be played in one standard.
However, the new netcodes, under the circumstance where pings are high and wide difference, is unfair. For the low-ping players, they can’t use tactics to hide or shoot. For the high-ping ones, other players will ‘flash’ in their screens, and the ‘resurrection’ makes them irritated.
It is the ping that divided the game into two standards, and consequently exaggerates the unfairness of the new server, compared to the old one, which has only one standard in the server instead of the local.

It can not be denied that the new server, in the short period, did have its advantage that players can get the real-time feedback in the game as they shoot enemies. Nevertheless, due to the game mechanics, we anticipate a majority tactic maps, approved maps would be largely eliminated, leaving other maps which make players bored. Sadly, according the statistics we found and the complaints concerning the core players, all the hypothesis outcome true, or even more severe as time goes.
There’s an opinion that the reason people against the new server is that they addicted to the old one, and not willing to adapt. That is absolutely irresponsible. It was a host of core members, who played the new server for a long period of time, who clearly know that was wrong with the server, who are continually support the game from 2013 to 2020. So, we are deeply concerned about it and hope something could be done to get the game out of trouble.


Statistics of New Multiplayer Server.xslx
Marketing Channel.pdf
Incoming Traffic.pdf
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Postby Kostadin 8 » 13 March 2020, 19:20

college level document for a 9 year old flash game
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Postby Girl_Power » 13 March 2020, 21:20

Kostadin 8 wrote:college level document for a 9 year old flash game

Couldn't agree more. I appreciate the information and such but honestly, no one is ever going to read all of it.
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Postby Rayie » 13 March 2020, 21:39

Im sad there was no point about the coronavirus
bad pun, jk

Girl_Power wrote:but honestly, no one is ever going to read all of it.

I actually did tho

I think you bring up a lot of good points here. Honestly, I haven't played this game or kept up with the community enough lately to see why the decline of this game is so harsh, but your research brings a lot of it into light(puts my pointless thread to shame).

There's way too much unintended emphasis on RP lobbies. It does make up a majority of the player base but there's not enough emphasis on ranked. There's a lot of one-upping in PB, people like to try to one-up maps, one-up other player's tactics, start their own lobbies using the same maps as the one they were just in to try to beat new players, etc. Point I'm getting at is if people play ranked, others will too, and for people to start playing it there has to be some incentive. With all these ping issues, I honestly think approved map contests are the way to go for this.

I also do think the new server is a welcome addition (in my book, at least), stricter ping requirements encourage fair play and more skill rather than cheap tactics. I thought limiting the ping in matches was a thing but that's mainly used for ping-bombing I guess.

I still do stand by my point that there's too much going on in this game and way too much content. Updates have to be good to attract new players and give existing players something fresh, but familiar. Keeping an aging game alive is a big task, and some games have been pulling it off, ex; CS:GO, War Thunder, Dota, Warframe (yes, games like these do add tons of content, but it's vanilla content, stuff that doesn't take away from the core purpose of the game aside from cosmetics). That's at least my opinion.

I like this though, I like the fact that you took the time out of your day not only to play the game and ask the community about how they feel, but to actually look into the statistics of things. Pretty neat. I'd try and do it every day for a month and see what you find, it'd probably take quite a bit of willpower but I'd be interested to see that you find.
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Postby r1k1 » 14 March 2020, 05:21

Kostadin 8 wrote:college level document for a 9 year old flash game

the current version is more like a real 9-year-old flash game

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Postby Resurrectionn » 14 March 2020, 06:11

I agree to essentially all that was said. Unfortunately the netcode update ruined the game, which caused the game to become even more dead. However it's more or less too late to regain players lost even if the game was fixed.
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Postby Sniper J » 14 March 2020, 16:24

While I do agree with your conclusions, the new netcode is just one more thing that contributed to the decline of the game. The decline began somewhere around 2014-2015, and slowly progressed onward from there. Now the game always managed to stay alive, even with a low amount of players. I think more players began to lose interest in the game than new ones would join. I wouldn't blame this decline solely on the new netcode, but it certainly drove it into the ground. Kind of like the final nail in the coffin.

My biggest problem with the game currently is the new netcode. Gameplay isn't like it used to be, mostly in ranked/approved. Instead of predicting a players movement, you just shoot directly at them. This presents a problem, especially due to the delay between two people's screens. I could be jumping up onto a ledge on my screen, but on the other player's screen, I'm still down below the ledge. So when they fire at me, I die on their screen as if I'm below the ledge, but on my screen, I just died to basically nothing, since I was on top of the ledge and behind a rather thick wall. On top of that, you have the "resurrection" in the game now, where you can shoot a player on your screen, and they die, but magically come back to life. There's plenty of problems with the new netcode, but those are the two biggest for me.

I think the decline of ranked/approved can be mainly attributed to the new netcode, since gameplay doesn't necessarily require "skill," or tactics anymore. On top of that, old tricks that players would on the old server don't work in the new netcode, or they don't work as well as they used to. It really diminishes a lot of the old play styles that players used to have. It just makes the game unenjoyable, in my opinion, since you don't necessarily need to have strategy or tactics anymore, you just have to move around quickly and shoot before they do. That's my take on the new netcode.

I don't think there's really any bouncing back from this decline in the game, especially for ranked/approved, since new players who, for obvious reasons, aren't that good in the game with competitive matches. You could just say, "just use the old multiplayer servers that are still available." Well, there's two problems with that one. One, you have to complete the campaign to get access to that, and I don't think new players will take the time to do that when they can just play in the new servers without any prerequisites. Two, the "old multiplayer" server isn't truly the old multiplayer. Defibrillators don't work, as far as I know, unless they've changed it recently. Certain tricks don't work the same way as before in the old multiplayer server. So, in reality, the "old multiplayer" isn't a viable option either.

In all honesty, I'd like to see the game revert back to the old multiplayer, but I don't think that would revive the game at all, since most of the old/experienced players do not play anymore. It's a shame but at the rate it's going, PB2 will just continue to lose players. It's hard to find a time of the day when the California server has over 100 players in it, and even then, that number only shows the number of players in the server itself, and not necessarily actively playing in a lobby. The game has been dying out for several years now, and it's finally at the point where there's not much you can do to fix it.

I will applaud you for taking the time to fully analyze the game and the problems with it. Your topic was well put together and very informative.

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Postby IforgotmypasswordHaHAA » 14 March 2020, 16:39

There's no definitive solution to a ping difference between two players, it never will be fixed on any game; either the low ping player will have an advantage or the high ping player will have the advantage, there's no middle ground. There's no way to compensate someone having over 100 ping, it will never be consistent regardless of how much work you put into your netcode. If you want an stable multiplayer experience, make your own community of people of the same ping and cope with it.
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Postby Zemai » 14 March 2020, 19:29

Very well put together topic, and I agree with most of what has been said here. Though, like Jay noted, I don't think that the netcode update is the defining factor of the decline of players to this game.

I don't think anyone could point to one thing specifically and say "this is the problem" accurately.

If there was a wider range of statistics (say from 2011 to now) you would see that over the years there have been multiple times that have seen spikes of player loss, especially from 2015 and onward.

From my own experience, and I know that there are many other old players like myself that would agree, there has been a slow decline in the playerbase of PB2 since 2015. To many old players, 2014 was the last "great year" for the game. The decline in players became much more noticeable in 2016 and 2017, which is when the majority of the old competitive players left the game.

The physics update, which if I remember correctly came in 2018 (maybe late 2017?), led to another steep drop of competitive players. Most people who had been playing competitive maps for a while at that time preferred the old physics much more. This is an example of a game damaging it's competitive community by pandering to those who don't take the time to learn the skills that got other players to where they are.

There have also been issues with many notable players not liking the staff team, or thinking that they are complacent. I'm not going to get into that stuff because a lot of it could be considered personal and as such would be best dealt with on a personal level.

But yeah, overall, there is no single issue that has caused the game to lose so many players. The player count has slowly been dropping for years now, and I don't really think that there's much of a chance to bring it back. Perhaps with future updates there can be more of an appeal to new players, but I know that the vast majority of old players that have left the game for whatever reason will not be coming back any time soon, including myself (except for visits, of course).
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Postby Assassian4 » 14 March 2020, 21:19

staff team bad, well not all of them. Mainly wasted time because of the whole thing about banning 5 people from the discord without reason.

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Postby Lord Blue Blood » 14 March 2020, 22:41

i completely agree with jay and zemai and i would like to flesh out their points.

it all started on late 2013 when the first big update happened, physics changed, the PP system changed to a commie system (the more PP u have the more PP you will lose when someone with little PP kills you) AND most importantly the advent of RANKED matches with ping limit, back then there was only approved and non approved and the ping limit was 1000. the first ping limit was 160 which was a huge blow to people from asia (which is where most people in the world live!) my friends like deadlytiger, hanong3 and ifusion couldn't play the game anymore (competivily).

And from then til mid 2014 if i am correct. something else happened, slow motion maps got unapproved (specifically matrix snipers and another rockets map) and certain staff members started acting like d!cks and the database crash happened, all these factors contributed to the death of pb2. RIP.

i would like to say although it seems pessimistic but u should abandon hope and let it die, we tried saving it on 2016 with the whole revivalist stuff but it didn't work, it didn't work in 2016 i highly doubt it would work now.

here are some links and screenshots that illustrate my point.

this is an example of staff getting tired of ppl complaining about the game : viewtopic.php?f=117&t=15540

these are examples of the revivalists trying to save the game but sadly fail viewtopic.php?f=117&t=16042 viewtopic.php?t=14650

here is the biggest amount of players on a server documented that proves pb2 right now is ded (although in this pictures other servers were down)

here is a cool video of the previous physics (Pre-2014)

in conclusion, just enjoy what is left and keep in mind that nothing lasts not even you.
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Postby Tempus » 15 March 2020, 02:14

I have read it and sent it to eric.
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Postby Acellamy » 15 March 2020, 02:35

Imagine not letting the game die. The only way this game is salvagable is if PB2 was sold the game to someone or a company which could actively provide monthly updates. To think the changes he made were even beneficial for a long lasting game let alone successful is funny. This game wasnt maintained enough to last and has had looming problems which has built up which has led to the unfortunately current state of this game. If you're wondering where Im drawing conclusions from, another flash game I used to actively play is Realm of the Mad God. Another game with similar problems left to dust away by Kabam but rescued by Deca Games( A dying game given an injection of life by fresh blood.

To not go into depth about the current problems of PB2;

- Flick through news and see how much change this game recieves, yes not much. Core mechanics can only entertain ones mind for so long. I remember when the sniper came out; a statement to how lackluster content has been. Timed deathmatches, is it hard to make lmao?
Campaign? Stayed the same for how long? okbuddy
Appeal to the newer player? Ha good joke ikr
(and yes bare in mind the unannouced updates)

- Custom Maps. No attention given to it. Saw; "are Cooperative maps in which the team is forced to escape to win".
Without knowing the ID or the map maker you have no current way to access it( Capped searches for a map genre sounds good). Sure I guess you can scroll through best level custom level developers which credits approved maps ratings and find a map there but it is very unaccessible for the casual player. Just in general it isnt very helpful finding a map, be it approved or unapproved. ... &id=663495
The only way to see every approved map is too scroll through an unofficial profile that isnt linked on the main site (click the logo but Im sure everyone should obviously know that XD)

As much as people who bring up the reviving idea they never actually discuss the remaining map group that keeps this game on life support.

- Remember "Top Deadly" a chart that showcased the mechanics of earning the most kills. At base good but exploitable nevertheless it kept you in the matches.
Back to player points, a better concept but exploited even further. Leave or sit on pause until you're satisfied. Yes very problematic in a competitive sense.
Last time I checked one map is played in ranked
Last time I checked you dont load in with guns

- This talk of netcode nonsense. Meta's change all the time and you either suffer or succeed. The game was fair back in the past because the scales were even enough; if you knew the tricks and niche movements or correct settings to gain an advantage you were more successful. "Unfair" because I got high ping in this server ajrngnrgrsgmsrghbsrgmsrgmnjsrgjng. It couldnt be the fact that I have no closer server to play to

- Plazmaburst2 videos. Shared on the forums or social medias other than that the attention drawn with the content isnt publicized to the community. No previews, No content creators, Nothing to entice you

- Game feels clunky because you play other games on newer engines and we are 9years and still on flash. We arent moving any time by the looks of things

- This game has never had the option to change controls. LOL

Key points above, if it isnt there it probably isnt that big. Lets try revive a game with a developer that goes missing without notice more often than not. I feel like Im ranting but you attempt reviliasts focus on the same ranked/ping shit and dont look at actual game aspects that make games enjoyable, popular or fun. Every clown does the same topic with half assed points of one map genre. Talk about history, talk about present state, game is setup for failure but it was enjoyable cant lie. 7 months of research but cant talk about the game as a whole, must be autism.

Plazma Burst 2 died in 2017. As my british youngen told me "its a dead ting lowe it"
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Postby Krutz » 15 March 2020, 03:09

The game isn't ideal for competitive multiplayer combat, new netcode or old netcode. It's a "pick your poison" scenario; they both have their drawbacks. It's either a shooter's client's occurrences are respected by the server, or a spectator's client's occurrences are respected by the server; there is no perfect combination of circumstances.

It's either you get shot and die in a ridiculous way because that is what occurred on the shooter's client, or you shoot and fail to kill in a ridiculous way because that isn't what occurred on the spectator's client.

I think PB2 is now irrelevant. Whatever effort spent to mend or "revive" PB2 is pointless because Eric is developing a successor that will actually (hopefully) deserve attention and can fundamentally facilitate a more competitive multiplayer experience than PB2 ever could.

So much can be said about how PB2 underperformed. But why should it be said at all when PB3 will come? Save the words for then.

EDIT: also, this "appeal to PB2" document was very difficult to understand at times.

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Postby vegetal » 15 March 2020, 05:47

the death of this game is like a muffin
you eat it once but then you send it out in toilet
that muffin will never be edible again
but you just get another muffin and you repeat the process

unless eric or someone rich enough advertises this game it's not gonna get up regardless of how much ppl try
take advice and eat a watermelon
that thing might get you to the toilet more times than the muffin but at least it takes longer to eat if you're not chinese
this is not racism or corona joke
this is constructive criticism for those who have more than 70 iq

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Postby QiLinXD » 15 March 2020, 13:37

As a member of PB2 data collection in this post, there's more content and evidence had been found in the collection of data.

About the current game playing methods and some factors. Jay, Zamei, Lord blue blood, ACE and others have explained relatively to complete.
Since the massive data loss of servers in 2015, many players have become inactive, which has represent a loss of PB2, but in face there are still many core players being active in Pb2.
I hope the developer is able to know that many core players in Pb2 between 2016 and 2019 have been actively driving the number of Pb2 servers.
However, I think the real time of the death of Pb2 wasn't in 2015, but in early 2018.
The developer is trying to pushing out a bunch of ways to find what they consider "game balance" to make lots of changes to the way players played.
IMO, it was a very impractical idea or feature.
In 2018, the number of players wasn't very massive, meanwhile those rank players are already accounted for half of the number in servers. For the first time, the producers balanced rank's FPs to make many approved maps less extensive, while for the new server at the end of 2019, I saw practically only stryde-sniper maps floating around.
Although I liked the other details and optimizations of Pb2 in the current version, however, if the developer chooses to change the core play method of game in MP, there is a no return way for Pb2 developer to cut off the game himself, and the result is too obvious as we will see today.
To make thing worse, I found that we can't swing the knife very fast at a moderate speed in single player map. Those upcoming game features are treated as "bugs" by them to fix...It's ironic.
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Postby Kiriakos Gr96 » 15 March 2020, 16:20

For me a big issue to play ranked or unranked is not so much the lag but more like the new net code system that change the way how we deal and get damage in game.

When the new net code system happened i tried to learn it (understand it) but no mater how much i play i still prefer the old one. [The new net code work better that the old one in cases when the ping of BOTH players is low like 60 or less but because everyone these days have 250+ or more we see results like other players to teleport (making harder to aim) or after we hit an other player and see him be hit and dies for some reason the players revived he kill us.]

Something else the new net code made better is the coop maps vs ai or saw maps i noticed that game expirience is better in these type of matches.
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Postby Lord Blue Blood » 16 March 2020, 20:30

I am glad everyone is on the same page regarding this issue (even staff)

Krutz wrote:It's either you get shot and die in a ridiculous way because that is what occurred on the shooter's client, or you shoot and fail to kill in a ridiculous way because that isn't what occurred on the spectator's client.

I'd argue this is worse for players with high ping than it was before for players with low ping.
another advantage for players with low ping is ping limit, you can't set a ping limit that excludes players with ping lower than 70 for example..
in conclusion the old system is more fair.
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Postby Krutz » 17 March 2020, 02:19

Lord Blue Blood wrote:I'd argue this is worse for players with high ping than it was before for players with low ping.
another advantage for players with low ping is ping limit, you can't set a ping limit that excludes players with ping lower than 70 for example..
in conclusion the old system is more fair.

Nope, the systems are quite comparable. It's just that the average ping of players has been high in recent years to the offered servers. The new netcode is more intuitive in that it respects the shooter's perspective (you shoot someone, then they take damage). I personally prefer the new netcode because of this property of intuitiveness that prioritizes the shooter. Like I said, both netcodes are problematic, imperfect, and equally render the game incapable of harboring fully competitive multiplayer combat.

Your mention of a low-ping cutoff threshold is ridiculous because lower pings are preferable to higher pings for more consistent and smoother gameplay. You say it's an "advantage for low-ping players" when it's rather an "advantage" of the game entirely in its multiplayer environment. Haven't you ever played any other multiplayer games, or multiplayer shooters? It's amusing how you acknowledge how "everyone is on the same page" yet you yourself overlook that others have mentioned that both netcodes are comparable in practice if the average ping of all players is very low. Players with high ping reveal how flawed PB2's multiplayer machinery is. It is no astonishment that PB2's multiplayer is best demonstrated by a match in which every player has low ping.

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Postby The Demian » 17 March 2020, 06:04

I don't want to be this kind of pessimistic, but most of the people that ketp this game alive for aproximately 7 years ended up quitting for various reasons (age, college, etc.) and if you look at the new generation of kids/teenagers they don't seem too interested on playing old school flash games anymore.
Good times are already over, every game always has this stationary transition over the years.

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