Possible improvements to the karma system:

[assasinguy]

Each time I've been on the chat, there has been some conversation about improvements which can be made to the karma system, I've seen some decent ideas, so I thought it would be good to make this topic and gather them all in one place, so if Eric drops in he can see what everyone thinks.

Now, I don't want any posts saying "Ew karma is useless remove it", that's not a suggestion for improvement now is it? If that's your point of view, fine, just don't make a post, this topic is for people to suggest ways to make the system better, not for people to say why it should be gone.

Hopefully I've made myself clear, give us your ideas, add to each other's ideas too but please don't start a huge apocalyptic flame war. Thanks for your time : )

[Munkey]

Make it so players would need a valid reason to remove points or that players can't take them away at all and make that a staff thing.

[assasinguy]

The whole point of a karma system is that moderation can still happen without any staff members online, it gives you guys some power and responsibility, the problem is making it accountable and fair, now, removing players' ability to do anything with karma points removes the whole purpose of the system, so that's not going to get us anywhere.

As for ensuring that people need a good reason to kick, hm, how would you do that? How would you be able to make sure and verify for every increase or decrease in karma somebody does.

[BloodShed04]

Well,remove the fact that users can remove another users karma,but keep that power to the staff.

[ilijah999]

Maybe the people who abuse wont be able to give or take karma. Like a karma ban system. If there abusing it, they get karma banned for a day or 2. If it continues, then they can never use the karma points.

[assasinguy]

Read my previous post, the whole point of a karma system is to give everyone some power and responsibility, removing user's ability to decrease others' karma effectively renders the system pointless, meaning the system shouldn't be in place at all.

Let's have some suggestions to improve the fairness of the system, assuming that users' power to add and remove karma will not be revoked.

Hm ... Karma abuse and karma bans, it's interesting, sort of an opposite of whitelisting, (blacklisting?), I do not know my terminology lol, anyways, yeah that would allow us to prevent troublesome users from abusing the system.

[BloodShed04]

Actually,do a pilgrimage acess to the karma,which means trusted users can use it.

[Thundrex]

Honestly, the karma system sounded good, but it's a piece of shit. A moderator or two need to be removed, as well.

[Krutz]

The whole point of a karma system is ... it gives you guys some power and responsibility

but i thought

[mingo1]

The whole point of a karma system is ... it gives you guys some power and responsibility

but i thought

Krutz, the whole chat is in its beta stage. Honestly, we're only just discovering whether the community can or can't handle something like a Karma system.

Even with it there, the Staff are always jumping on to handle stuff.
Hopefully I cleared things up for you.

With respect, insight, and choice,

...those are my thoughts.

[Civil-Lite]

Heres what I think about karma:
Remove the dam thing, too many people abuse karma by decreasing others for no reason Thundrex! Karma is a stupid way of being banned bay another player and not staff. This has just gave the new chat a load of kaos and drama, the old chat was peaceful along with the old commands. Highly advise, remove karma and revert back to the old commands for chat!

[Galaxy_Slayer 15]

Sorry civil.... thundrex and me just really hate traced art

[Buzzard 1]

How about this;

Players must provide a valid reason why he/she shall give or take away a karma point to that user and a staff members decides whether it should be approved or not. In order to reduce the constant abuse of Karma Points. If that seems too much handle then I recommend that users may need a certain amount of points in order to give or take away and to also include a valid reason so that way, other users that don't know any better wouldn't have to keep taking away people's point for no reason.

For newbies, why not give them a requirement in order for them to talk in the new PB2 chat? Like 100-200 kills shall be precise and a reasonable amount of kills. Or if they stayed and played for played this game for like a couple of days or so then they are allowed to talk and all, that worked well for the map voting system, so why not do it the same for the chat?

Although, if you're letting the community handle the karma point system to see how they handle it, then it was mostly not a great idea from my perspective. There has been several users who were at least handling it from the staff's expectations but likely most of them abused it.

[Mirth]

Maybe a history which lists only the movements of Karma between players? With their respective reasons.
So, in case there's no moderator online, and there's a certain abuse of this, the problem could be solved quickly.

[Martin The Wolf]

This karma thing isn't working out, too many people abuse (I myself have abused, and yes I admit it). Before the new karma chat came , some people suggested a whitelist chat, where only trusted people go on the chat,but then I got an idea, why not combine the two ideas with each other, the whitelist chat with the karma idea. (and once again you're probably thinking wrong, that the chat is WHITE LISTED and with KARMA, but no, to see what I mean keep on reading)

You need 10 karma to chat, and you can get up to 15 karma, so combining the two ideas, everyone can only have a 10 karma cap. And trusted users can have more than a 10 karma cap (this is where the white list idea came in), since you cannot decrease your karma lower than 10 yourself they cannot abuse the karma function, but if someone donates karma to a non-white listed user their, the non- white listed user will over time decrease to 10. Like with the 15 cap and if you have more than 15.

So tell me what you think about this idea. This might work better than Karma idea alone.

[Silent Aurora]

Topic merged with a similar one.

[Mirth]

Here I got another suggestion, it came to mind after seeing BoZ peeps supporting each other to raise Monkeyman's karma after being reduced by a staff member for keeping ''inappropiate topics''.
If a staff member reduces karma points, users are unable to give that person karma points for a period of time, according to this way as example:
User gets his points reduced to 9, other users are not allowed to raise his points for 10 minutes.
User gets his points reduced to 6-8, others are unallowed to raise his points for 20 minutes.
User gets his points reduced to 3-5, others are not allowed to give him points for 40 minutes.
User gets his points reduce to 1-2, others cannot raise his points for 1 hour.
I won't point out zero points since it basically means temporal ban technically...
This might also cover one of the many flaws this system currently has.

[Eric Gurt]

Make it so players would need a valid reason to remove points or that players can't take them away at all and make that a staff thing.

Reason field has been added for karma decrease operations.

Well,remove the fact that users can remove another users karma,but keep that power to the staff.

It's a good idea, but chat moderation will take too much time and we probably will have to remove chat just like it was last time since we had not enough people to watch it 24/7.

Maybe the people who abuse wont be able to give or take karma. Like a karma ban system. If there abusing it, they get karma banned for a day or 2. If it continues, then they can never use the karma points.

Can be useful.

Heres what I think about karma:
Remove the dam thing, too many people abuse karma by decreasing others for no reason Thundrex! Karma is a stupid way of being banned bay another player and not staff. This has just gave the new chat a load of kaos and drama, the old chat was peaceful along with the old commands. Highly advise, remove karma and revert back to the old commands for chat!

It is meant to simplify site staff work. Once logging will be finished - some of site staff members will be able to review actions done in Chat's main channel. I described reason why old way will not work earlier in this message.

How about this;

Players must provide a valid reason why he/she shall give or take away a karma point to that user and a staff members decides whether it should be approved or not. In order to reduce the constant abuse of Karma Points. If that seems too much handle then I recommend that users may need a certain amount of points in order to give or take away and to also include a valid reason so that way, other users that don't know any better wouldn't have to keep taking away people's point for no reason.

For newbies, why not give them a requirement in order for them to talk in the new PB2 chat? Like 100-200 kills shall be precise and a reasonable amount of kills. Or if they stayed and played for played this game for like a couple of days or so then they are allowed to talk and all, that worked well for the map voting system, so why not do it the same for the chat?

Although, if you're letting the community handle the karma point system to see how they handle it, then it was mostly not a great idea from my perspective. There has been several users who were at least handling it from the staff's expectations but likely most of them abused it.

Reason added.

Chat gives 10 points points to users who can rate/comment maps on first join. In else case it gives 1 karma point.

Currently karma works in the way where users who are able to chat receive more points in total than users who have less than 10 karma points. This way a bit of moderation at start should be enough to make chat work in proper way.

Maybe a history which lists only the movements of Karma between players? With their respective reasons.
So, in case there's no moderator online, and there's a certain abuse of this, the problem could be solved quickly.

It's in plans.

This karma thing isn't working out, too many people abuse (I myself have abused, and yes I admit it). Before the new karma chat came , some people suggested a whitelist chat, where only trusted people go on the chat,but then I got an idea, why not combine the two ideas with each other, the whitelist chat with the karma idea. (and once again you're probably thinking wrong, that the chat is WHITE LISTED and with KARMA, but no, to see what I mean keep on reading)

You need 10 karma to chat, and you can get up to 15 karma, so combining the two ideas, everyone can only have a 10 karma cap. And trusted users can have more than a 10 karma cap (this is where the white list idea came in), since you cannot decrease your karma lower than 10 yourself they cannot abuse the karma function, but if someone donates karma to a non-white listed user their, the non- white listed user will over time decrease to 10. Like with the 15 cap and if you have more than 15.

So tell me what you think about this idea. This might work better than Karma idea alone.

15 karma points limit made so one user was not able to uninvite anybody just based on his own decision and instead of it 2 or 3 users had to make such decision.

Here I got another suggestion, it came to mind after seeing BoZ peeps supporting each other to raise Monkeyman's karma after being reduced by a staff member for keeping ''inappropiate topics''.
If a staff member reduces karma points, users are unable to give that person karma points for a period of time, according to this way as example:
User gets his points reduced to 9, other users are not allowed to raise his points for 10 minutes.
User gets his points reduced to 6-8, others are unallowed to raise his points for 20 minutes.
User gets his points reduced to 3-5, others are not allowed to give him points for 40 minutes.
User gets his points reduce to 1-2, others cannot raise his points for 1 hour.
I won't point out zero points since it basically means temporal ban technically...
This might also cover one of the many flaws this system currently has.

Users should be able to protect uninvited users because karma decrease can be initiated in abused way. I will probably add a rule for this system according to which users will lose 1 karma point when they are not active in few days and have over 10 karma points.

People DON'T have to wait for 10 karma points, but DO have to wait for the privilege of increasing/decreasing karma points. If a staff member says they are good and can be trusted, they give them the access.

Might not work with PB2 and Chat will remain empty most of the time.

[Nessa]

Sorry I didn't feel like reading everyone else's post so it may be a similiar idea to theirs, idk.

Some of my ideas on improving karma system:
- Not making users spend karma points just to talk in a private chat. That's like paying to use the restroom in a restaurant because you need to pee.
- The use of italics, bolds, and other expressive things other than CAPS.
- Highlighting one's name so they can differentiate their comments from other users, especially staff since they have colored names, it gets confusing.
- Friend hierarchy: connect pb2 friend list to the chat so all of your friends are at the top of the chat list in order to easily access them better.
- Allow users to delete their comments, given it will display that they have deleted their comment. This will make it only more suspicious for those who try to delete evidence and also those who make grammar mistakes.
- Making a settings so user can choose whether turns into 2D emoticons. (Trust me, it's annoying)

Thanks for reading,

Nessa

[Mirth]

Karma system is the dumbest thing I ever seen in my life. But it's a PB2 Staff/community idea so I should have expected it sooner or later.

The dumbest? How come? Could you explain any further instead of attacking for no reason at all and not even supporting your points? Oh wait, do you even have points to support besides a random shot over the staff?
No, right? In that case and if you have nothing else to say, rather do not post at all.