for those who think pb2 has a bad netcode

General Discussion related to the Plazma Burst game series!

Re: for those who think pb2 has a bad netcode

Postby Nehil » 17 April 2021, 17:25

Dwayne wrote:just please admit whether the netcode is bad or not, the games dying/dead and there are many things to consider as to why its dying/dead then move on because nothing remains the same

if u complain too much about certain things then either dont play the gamemodes u dislike or just completely quit the game

also wtf do u gain from arguing about a flash game, as well as the game which has no influence on u right now

if u rly care one bit, just hope the better for pb3/pb2.5


The fact that the game is dead has nothing to do with the "netcode" in general, if this netcode was implemented back in 2013 no one would be arguing and you know it, the reason of why this game died was the lack of udpates before 2019, im p sure that if the level editor udpates/new skins/new weapons/approval udpates were implemented b4, this would still be alive but whatever, this is what we have now, and its not about "dislike" or "like", its about being logical and talking about facts, its about achieving the truth

and indeed, pb2.5 will be a better game since it wont be that limited as pb2

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Re: for those who think pb2 has a bad netcode

Postby phsc » 17 April 2021, 17:43

retard wrote:lmao all these were to avoid ur post because i dont care enough to go on and write essays back to back about this shit

you cannot, its not that you dont care, you have no points dude, you spent your time writing nothing, you spent your time reading this, this is actually a fallacy in itself, its really funny

and even if u bring up logical povs and reasons that would be agreed to, many people who quit ranked like me and many otheres who complain about the same stuff i mentioned wont give a damn cuz my reasons are there and if u can read well instead of filtering with ur pedro-knowledge u will see where me and many others come from with these points

this is irrelevant actually like, people cant cope w changes mostly in a community of a flash game that people mostly play because of nostalgia and because they cant go on, also is it really bad if people stop playing ranked? like fr whats the issue, people with high ping who had an advantage stop playing making it more fair, wow! anyway "pedro-knowledge" this rly deliciously exquisite pizza sauce shows how biased your mind is (is it even worthy of being called a mind?)


retard wrote:just please admit whether the netcode is bad or not, the games dying/dead and there are many things to consider as to why its dying/dead then move on because nothing remains the same

this is completely irrelevant to this post you moron, the idea of this is to discuss the netcode, i made some points i see people rarely making, talking about it in a slighty more technical level which people seem not to understand (you included), the idea isnt to talk about if the game is dying or not this is probably not because of the netcode anyway, the netcode change might have affected it? yes, but its not like it changed much, what truly killed pb2 is the flash end of life and currently there are all the server issues and such i dont see how what u said is relevant

if u complain too much about certain things then either dont play the gamemodes u dislike or just completely quit the game

this is completely irrelevant to the discussion

also wtf do u gain from arguing about a flash game, as well as the game which has no influence on u right now

also irrelevant, anyway i actually like spreading information, i think people are very biased to a cognitive level in how they judge the netcode and that is not healthy for a community so its good to have some facts written out, eric did write that out but got kinda ignored? anyway theres a few things he didnt mention i mentioned and also i wanted to show how its not a netcode issue instead more of a server issue which is correlated to ping and individual player internet connection, i also like discussions



Gashadokuro wrote:Keep in mind user Nehil was banned for hacking.

meliante wrote:So you like hacking more with this new netcode instead of the old one? Noted.

he wasnt banned for hacking this is actually straight up wrong information, he was banned for something else + this is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT TO ANY SORT OF DISCUSSION, this is literally an attack on character, a fallacy, a form of ad hominem but its not even an argument, this is called poisoning the well, google on it ppl its a rly dumb thing people fall for its just one of those things that feeds the biases i keep mentioning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well
completely unrelated but intuition tells me gashadokuro is dwayne in an alt i dont have evidence of that but the way both of them treat me and act socially is very similar just mentioning COMPLETELY UNRELATED



nightmar wrote:1) People tank the crap out of me. You may want to argue that this was more common with the old netcode but keep in mind that if you understood the way it worked you could hit someone regardless of their ping. I would fight players with 100 and 900 alike because I understood the way it worked. But now I can not even tell if the person that I killed is actually dead or if he will pop up behind me and be like "omae wa mou shindeiru".

this is because you probably fall into the group of those affected by desync/high ping/packet loss, the old netcode did have pattersn to it, bt this one also has, actually the old netcode was less consistent with it if we get a bit more technical considering how the game was more local and how aspects like FPS low/high physics n etc affected the game a lot, it was simply more visual not that it was a less predictable system, this one requires you to understand what is going on in a network level and actuall do lag compensation for yourself and not others, instead of firing where tehy are going you ened to consider your position in correlation to your ping, again that video i sent by nehil shows that extremely well, the skill is on the player who understand how his movements go and with that can hit things on teh server, it is less visual thus less intuitive but a lot of this is just because people got used to the last system

nightmar wrote:2) We can not dodge bullets anymore. You can legit be 20 meters away from where the enemy fires and still die. Despite there being ways to understand where the enemy will see you it's still annoying. What annoyes me more about it is that when someone tanks you and pops up in front of you with a loaded gun then there's nothing you can do about it to not die. You will die no matter what. In the old netcode you could always deal with someone since you had the ability to dodge their fire long enough to figure a way to fight them.

you can, its just that youre not compensating for you own lag, if you have lets say a 0.2 second delay (200 ping means this) you need to dodge 0.2 seconds before, in the last system, you had 0.2 additional seconds to dodge because the information would take more time to reach your computer, this is why it was so unfair, and this is what caused eating, while in ones screen one is shooting and hitting, in the others the dude is shooting (later) and hitting, a thing that happened a lot is people dying after you shot them or killed them which was very frustrating because the syncindg didnt update, in this the person either dies or doesnt die, it might show in your screen that tehy died, but in the server they didnt n that is what matters, games arent meant to be played with high ping in any way but this one is more fair for those with lower ping as ive mentioned




this thread actually really shows why this community is really dumb, its so hard for people to stop and think about things instead of simply going by what is visual, instinctive/intuitive and such, going by their biases making their decisions by what daniel kahneman would consider as system 1 instead of using system 2 yno, its actually really hard to solve this issue, and the saddest part is that eric himself has explained it yet he got ignored (THANK YOU FOR THAT COMPILATION OF STUFF ON THIS TOPIC BLAKE BEST STAFF)
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Re: for those who think pb2 has a bad netcode

Postby astrodex pl » 17 April 2021, 18:22

just play on european server idiots not in american ones why european people keep playing on american server it pisses me off
My purpose makes more sense when i look at insanity around that world
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Re: for those who think pb2 has a bad netcode

Postby Nehil » 17 April 2021, 18:31

astrodex pl wrote:just play on european server idiots not in american ones why european people keep playing on american server it pisses me off


Even astrodex makes way more sense than yall, if yall dont like it, just go to the other server, like its there wtf

and also, for those who call me "hacker" YES GUYS I HACK OMG I USE x4 SPEED AND IM SUPER FAST LIKE SONIC AND I USE AUTOMATIC AIM 5.0 SO I CAN KILL EVERYONE WITH EASE OMGOGOMGMOGGMOMGOOMG (i hope that this lets meliante and gasha sleep the next nights)
yall are retarded, specially gasha and meliante, why would i hack a flash game dude, i dont even have the programming knowledge like to do that, and also, i would be perma banned for hacking in ranked/unranked already if that was the case, but im still here.
i dont even need to say anymore, you guys are just talking bullshit cause yall just didnt get good, dont blame me for being better than average what the hell

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Re: for those who think pb2 has a bad netcode

Postby Gashadokuro » 17 April 2021, 18:35

You happen to have less posts than me so that is pretty disrespectful commentary if you ask me.
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Re: for those who think pb2 has a bad netcode

Postby Cpt Lasky » 17 April 2021, 19:50

mrblake213 wrote:Wow, now this is a topic that has been in the community for years.
For this same reason, I actually compiled a link of topics and even Eric's messages over old vs new netcode.

Here are similar topics:
Spoiler: Show More
New System is Trashhhhh by BlvxkByrd
viewtopic.php?f=146&t=23976

APPEAL TO PB2 by king4k
viewtopic.php?f=117&t=23926

Netcode by shother23
viewtopic.php?f=117&t=23632

What ever this is, needs to be fixed. by Lance Ryder Wilson
viewtopic.php?f=117&t=23559

Opinion on the new hit-registration (big bad) by unknown 1
viewtopic.php?f=117&t=23443

My opinion on new update (Version 1.32) by Vicendo
viewtopic.php?f=117&t=23433

Netcode explained. by Nyove
viewtopic.php?f=126&t=25222


Here are Eric's responses:
Spoiler: Show More






And most importantly, I found this on the FAQ page.


I'm not a fan of the new netcode when playing with laggers. After reading Eric and other's povs, the workaround is playing with players with similar ping values. Which makes sense, and probably why so many wanted and like the new netcode. But the thing is, majority of players are laggy now, so finding other players with low ping is rather rare. If old multiplayer was kept from the start, things might have been different. Most of the low ping players left because this new one favors lag and removed dodging. There's a list of issues I have seen but I'm sure they already have been mentioned by others. Syncing seems to be the biggest issue here, hopefully this can be fixed.
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Re: for those who think pb2 has a bad netcode

Postby Nehil » 17 April 2021, 21:53

I'm not a fan of the new netcode when playing with laggers. After reading Eric and other's povs, the workaround is playing with players with similar ping values. Which makes sense, and probably why so many wanted and like the new netcode. But the thing is, majority of players are laggy now, so finding other players with low ping is rather rare. If old multiplayer was kept from the start, things might have been different. Most of the low ping players left because this new one favors lag and removed dodging. There's a list of issues I have seen but I'm sure they already have been mentioned by others. Syncing seems to be the biggest issue here, hopefully this can be fixed.


The fact that you said that new netcode favors high ping players makes me think that you literally didnt read anything about the discussion, low ping players have way more adventage than high ping players, do i have to mention why? just ask 2 friends, one with 90 ping and someone else with 200 stable, make them stream and compare the movement, the delay on throwing granades, teleports, delay on kills, chances of resurrecting, etc ON THEIR SCREENS and tell me
DO HIGH PING PLAYERS HAVE ADVENTAGE?
Just to make it simple, its a clear no, but test by urself dude, you will see how things change lol

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Re: for those who think pb2 has a bad netcode

Postby meliante » 18 April 2021, 22:00

I don't call hacker anyone here rather than you and Hung. Also I don't think getting raggy at me because I say the truth is going to work. Good luck with your server :)
https://prnt.sc/ox8tpk
F the game. F
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Re: for those who think pb2 has a bad netcode

Postby woahz » 19 April 2021, 00:59

the problem with new pb2 netcode is that the game was dying in the first place

there's no point making a system which is more friendly to new players when most of the playerbase have been playing for 2+ years already in a game that recieves virtually no advertising

imo the old netcode had a much higher skill ceiling which increased replayability but that's besides the point, im not going to argue over which one was better.

a lot of players decided to leave because of the changes and the game clearly hasn't recovered

killing off 'hardcore' players just made the game even more dead since those hardcore players would easily have downloaded the game over some newer players who really dont care about the game

(as an old player, the changes killed my interest in any DM-type game modes and i started playing coop/saw maps exclusively after that. if i didn't like saw maps to begin with i would have left the game already. and you can tell me to 'deal with it', and i, and many others dealt with it by not playing.)

this is honestly just a rant, you can bring back old netcode but at this point it would end up killing more players.
i just think drastically changing the game mechanics 8 years in was a bad idea in the first place
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Re: for those who think pb2 has a bad netcode

Postby phsc » 19 April 2021, 02:25

woahz wrote:the problem with new pb2 netcode is that the game was dying in the first place

well, while i do believe the netcode probably made some people leave the game, is there actual data on that? i think i remember eric talking about how he did not see a big player decline, but i might be mistaken, but i dont see how the topic of the game dying is actually relevant, the game was basically already dead, it was just a cherry on the top, while i do think most competitive players which were the ones most affected by this stayed because they were good at the game and for maybe nostalgic/routine behaviour, isnt this the best time to apply something like this? if the game changed back in 2013 or something a lot of people wouldve got mad, not that it would be as visible, but it couldve caused a player decline, not that i think the general pb2 target audience at the time which was mostly kids (might still be) really cares? but still, in numbers id say more people wouldve left back then than today, the game has been considered dead for a while and the flash end of life was the final bullet, the thing is, nobody stops to think about people who mightve left or stopped playing competitive because of the old netcode, the people constantly eating and such, i myself kind of stopped with more competitive focused combat play because of that, i always had a good internet connection with high ping, also a good computer, which means people with similar ping had an advatange over me, and the people i had an advatange over (not always because of packet loss and desync and such) were playing ranked and at the time my ping didnt allow me to do that (only in wash after ping limits were made higher, this was around 2015 tho, what im talking about is 2013-2014), not to mention how frustrating it is and how it is a not intuitive system, but ill get to this later

there's no point making a system which is more friendly to new players when most of the playerbase have been playing for 2+ years already in a game that recieves virtually no advertising

the idea of the netcode isnt making a system that is beginner friendly, it is making a system that makes sense, read what ive said here, the current netcode solves many issues and many things that could be abused, it generally fixes hacking issues, desync issues (which can be very absurd), and of course extreme eating, but it is more beginner friendly, i do agree the game needs more advertising (port it to steam and add it there eric just like rotmg and some other games did!)

imo the old netcode had a much higher skill ceiling which increased replayability but that's besides the point, im not going to argue over which one was better.

its not really your opinion, it is kinda factual, you had to abuse the system, you had to realize "wow this game is weird i have high ping/bad internet/bad computer and with this i can force an advantage over others because my game is basically functioning differently, this is actually not intuitive and this is actually kind of very inconsistent, because of lag compensation and such, and adapting to individual player styles (not going for a headshot because in the dude youre shooting at pov he is dodging but for you hes eating, etc, so you aim for the ground which deals less damage in normal cases, but he also might jump), this involves also knowing player playstyles and such (you already do need because of map design and positioning and etc), anyway the issue is that shit got wild really fast and the patterns did not always make sense with the numbers because for you to truly maek sense of it not only you need values you cannot get from your pov (how good someones internet is because of packet loss, how good someones computers is and in more modern times their game config), the only value you get is ping which isnt enough to completely predict things, anyway, this gets into something which is kinda complicated, the bug = feature idea, this is the idea behind self boosting and such, and it is not an intuitive mechanic but it is made because of how people constnatly use it, lag compensation isnt visible, considering the games target audience are kids this isnt rly good game design, theres other games w a similar mentality (including my beloved DOTA 2), the thing is they slowly are removing really weird things that are not intuitive from the game, and the way some of lag compensation works in PB2 probably fits that, the old system increased replayability but kind of objectively, the change of the system increaes replayability even more, mostly considering most people were used to the game, a change of game mechanics like that can be considered a patch in a game like DOTA or league or something, changing mechanics making players adapt, literally more content for you to master or whatever

a lot of players decided to leave because of the changes and the game clearly hasn't recovered


killing off 'hardcore' players just made the game even more dead since those hardcore players would easily have downloaded the game over some newer players who really dont care about the game

this is where i think data would be cool, players are constantly leaving, but a lot have just kinda been waiting for a justification, but did they leave? like this is complicated, i dont know someone who actually left because of the netcode, i am kinda far from the more competitive side of pb2 but like, some examples of people who left? actual data? isnt this kind of an assumption? most people got mad but they came here to complain but still kinda play, theres a natural flux of people leaving the game and this probably just acted as a catalyst but not as the sole reason, games constantly change their mechanics and basically always those who leave just take that as the last straw and not as the sole reason

(as an old player, the changes killed my interest in any DM-type game modes and i started playing coop/saw maps exclusively after that. if i didn't like saw maps to begin with i would have left the game already. and you can tell me to 'deal with it', and i, and many others dealt with it by not playing.)

whats your ping? basically all people who got mad at the new system have high ping which made it harder for them to play the game, which is probably frustrating for them but before, it was frustrating for others yno, its just that they kinda got used to having the advantage and now that the game has changed well some might just leave or whatever
another thing people dont rly talk about is how the new netcode is better for maps that arent competitive combat focused, generally, mostly with the player position and such, and custom maps actually is what keeps pb2 going, not the approved maps (basically always there are more people playing custom maps, since like... ever)

this is honestly just a rant, you can bring back old netcode but at this point it would end up killing more players.
i just think drastically changing the game mechanics 8 years in was a bad idea in the first place

i think that this gets to an issue about quality vs popularity, the new netcode is better from a dev pov and it can scale and such, but a lot of pb2 players do have high ping and it makes it way more frustrating these days, A LOT OF PLAYERS, if pb2 didnt have the old netcode they wouldve got into pb2 as much id say, not that it really matters that much because of the ping limits in ranked and such exists so the true competitive side of the game already isnt allowed for them, but theres playing approved maps and such (interesting thing ive observed, people with higher ping generally have more kdr, not only because they play vs worse players that play approved matches instead of ranked, but also because of their advantage)

anyway i think the new netcode generally works best for the game and it probably is very good for eric himself, giving him experience when it comes to netcodes so he doesnt create a mess like the old pb2 one was and creates something closer to other games, and again, i must repeat, the old netcode would be shit no matter the server quality, this one is solvable, better servers, closer to people, and the issues go away! JUST LIKE EVERY SINGLE OTHER GAME OUT THERE!!! it is a solvable issue, the problem is that servers cost money and rn afaik pb2 cant even keep its servers online, so...
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Re: for those who think pb2 has a bad netcode

Postby woahz » 19 April 2021, 20:10

well yeah, without actual data we cant really say whether the new netcode killed some of the playerbase or not but we do have the poll that eric created. correct me if i'm wrong but the poll barely won in favor of new netcode where the community hadnt even played with the new netcode yet. this just shows half the community wanted a sort of change whereas the other half wanted to keep the game the same probably cause of nostalgia etc.

the problem with this type of poll/voting system is the same problem that some political voting systems have where you have half the people who won the vote who are happy and you have the other half unhappy. in an ideal world you would be able to leave both sides happy and not create a divide between voters which this update clearly did - people are complaining about new netcode and the people who like the new netcode are talking back creating a constant argument (like seriously, years after the update this is still controversial somehow).

the problem with politics is not so easy to fix but i think in pb2's case it could have been handled much better. instead of making old multiplayer doomed by making you have to complete the campaign he could have just made new netcode completely optional as a setting before creating a match.

i don't see how this wouldn't be unfair but you do mention people using hacks/etc and my response to that is people will hack in virtually every game, eric could have updated the game to make it harder for hackers instead - fixing some forms of hacking was a side product of the new netcode.

letting the players choose what type of netcode they want and playing with others who think the same seems ideal so i don't see why eric chose to leave old netcode in the gutter considering half the players didnt want the change in the first place and the other half hadn't even played with the new netcode

you do mention higher ping players having an advantage in old netcode but with an optional system it is completely up to the choice of low ping players to play in old multiplayer or new multiplayer so you can't really complain.


i'm not here to dispute everything you said in reply since at the end without facts/data this is all based on opinion
i feel like what you said about custom maps (not approved) keeping the game alive is right on the money though since i am a living representation of that
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Re: for those who think pb2 has a bad netcode

Postby Master Chief 0 » 19 April 2021, 21:36

Plazmaburst 2 netcode in general is BAD. None of that netcodes is as good as the other as well, if both exist then I would commit that both sucks as hell and the multiplayer is HORRIBLE at all time and it will stay bad forever because each netcode is more retard than the other, the old one makes your weapons shots after 0,5 seconds where you can literally dodge any shot and miss the point where the other opponents could've killed you easily.

The new one is just uhh. pretty much worse than you think because even if your weapons shot faster but there is a definite nightmare ass tanking in the game cause your weapon wasn't charged but fully tricks you and thinks that it's ready for use and when you shot at someone it doesn't count and also that because of the slow frame rate that always players use like 30 WTF they don't know the most suggested one is 60?

And soo while they move they think they are moving fast but with the low fps they do be lagging while self boosting, once you get one and basically it doesn't count your shot cause his moves are so delayed and well so bad, there isn't a game that delays gun firing trigger like the hell is this type of game do we play?

Just not to be annoying like every time i just wanna say that Plazma burst 2 multiplayer netcodes are f*cked up where each one of them delay something in the game to prevent that thing from working at the current required time.

Weird thing that you are talking about the PB2 netcode nowadays in 2021 of flash's death.
so what then, i think I will quit and leave this community but before I will complete my objective for sure then I will announce my retirement.
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Re: for those who think pb2 has a bad netcode

Postby Nehil » 20 April 2021, 00:49

Master Chief 0 wrote:Plazmaburst 2 netcode in general is BAD. None of that netcodes is as good as the other as well, if both exist then I would commit that both sucks as hell and the multiplayer is HORRIBLE at all time and it will stay bad forever because each netcode is more retard than the other, the old one makes your weapons shots after 0,5 seconds where you can literally dodge any shot and miss the point where the other opponents could've killed you easily.

The new one is just uhh. pretty much worse than you think because even if your weapons shot faster but there is a definite nightmare ass tanking in the game cause your weapon wasn't charged but fully tricks you and thinks that it's ready for use and when you shot at someone it doesn't count and also that because of the slow frame rate that always players use like 30 WTF they don't know the most suggested one is 60?

And soo while they move they think they are moving fast but with the low fps they do be lagging while self boosting, once you get one and basically it doesn't count your shot cause his moves are so delayed and well so bad, there isn't a game that delays gun firing trigger like the hell is this type of game do we play?

Just not to be annoying like every time i just wanna say that Plazma burst 2 multiplayer netcodes are f*cked up where each one of them delay something in the game to prevent that thing from working at the current required time.

Weird thing that you are talking about the PB2 netcode nowadays in 2021 of flash's death.


Ok i wont even dare on arguing against you, youre either brain dead or you simply didnt even pay attention to everything that was said before, inform yourself about the discussion b4 giving an opinion dude, the NETCODE AINT BAD, ITS A GAME WHERE EVERYONE HAS +170 PING WITH SYNC ISSUES, LIKE CMON CAN ANYONE BE LOGICAL? what do you expect by having a high ping or by playing against high ping players even if your ping is good, do u expect a good quality of gameplay? u cant expect a single person (eric) who put ENOUGH EFFORT already to keep working on something that aint really his fault, and again, NETCODE IS FINE, SERVERS ARE THE ISSUE, like my god, understand already, read A BIT.
Also, another thing, if u really think new is that bad, play against laggy people on old, try shoting them while they boost, and tell me if its better than new, tell me if its realistic, tell me if its worth to have a multiplayer on there xd

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Re: for those who think pb2 has a bad netcode

Postby phsc » 20 April 2021, 04:14

woahz wrote:well yeah, without actual data we cant really say whether the new netcode killed some of the playerbase or not but we do have the poll that eric created. correct me if i'm wrong but the poll barely won in favor of new netcode where the community hadnt even played with the new netcode yet. this just shows half the community wanted a sort of change whereas the other half wanted to keep the game the same probably cause of nostalgia etc.

the problem with this type of poll/voting system is the same problem that some political voting systems have where you have half the people who won the vote who are happy and you have the other half unhappy. in an ideal world you would be able to leave both sides happy and not create a divide between voters which this update clearly did - people are complaining about new netcode and the people who like the new netcode are talking back creating a constant argument (like seriously, years after the update this is still controversial somehow).

such ideal world is impossible, but the closest to to it would be a new netcode (one that syncs bullets and weapon states etc) with way better servers, the issue is this is expensive as deliciously exquisite pizza sauce, the best we might get is the current one with better servers but that is also not going to happen, but people will still be mad they cant tank as much and now are on the least advantageous side because of how their packet loss/desync/high ping isnt making them OP anymore

theres another issue w this type of poll, theres a ton of people who dont answer polls!

the problem with politics is not so easy to fix but i think in pb2's case it could have been handled much better. instead of making old multiplayer doomed by making you have to complete the campaign he could have just made new netcode completely optional as a setting before creating a match.

actually, i mean, it was made optional, the new multiplayer vs old multiplayer thing, the issue is that the old multiplayer shenanigans required you to play the 42 levels, this also gets to an issue that is, a game requires an amount of people to play, if you divide the servers in two it is likely that the threshold were things just die is going to be hit, just like when you open europe theres few people because most people play in california so that is p much the only place you can find matches

i don't see how this wouldn't be unfair but you do mention people using hacks/etc and my response to that is people will hack in virtually every game, eric could have updated the game to make it harder for hackers instead - fixing some forms of hacking was a side product of the new netcode.

making it harder for hackers requires changes in netcode, ive hacked pb2 before and ive told eric how i do it and he said it wasnt solvable and well it isnt perfect but the new system is better at this since its more server synced than the last one, making it harder to hack does inherently require changing the netcode a bit, didnt have to be completely but the hacker would still have his ping value to have fun without being punished in the last one, also pb2 does have a few anti-hack systems

letting the players choose what type of netcode they want and playing with others who think the same seems ideal so i don't see why eric chose to leave old netcode in the gutter considering half the players didnt want the change in the first place and the other half hadn't even played with the new netcode

the issue is that new players probably would be confused and most people generally go in what is new instead of what is old, so the new netcode would win, also they would go for what is more popular, if by the small data we have the new netcode won but not by much, the idea is that it would be more popular since it was the more popular result and people would migrate or naturally use it by default in the case of new players

you do mention higher ping players having an advantage in old netcode but with an optional system it is completely up to the choice of low ping players to play in old multiplayer or new multiplayer so you can't really complain.

this gets to an issue, what about top 100 and PL? is it fair that someone can tank a ton of bullets and such in the old netcode while being extremely hard to deal with, or might be able to do some hacking (this used to be more of a thing in 2012-2013 but still should work in the old netcode more than in the new one i think), vs someone who is still playing with a delay on the servers that just happens to be a lower value than someone else? also what about PL and other sort of competitive play? would it be divided in two? the issue with this kind of thing is that it cuts the community of a dying game in half which should slow down its death


i'm not here to dispute everything you said in reply since at the end without facts/data this is all based on opinion
i feel like what you said about custom maps (not approved) keeping the game alive is right on the money though since i am a living representation of that

this has always been known and eric has confirmed this, also most of the info on the netcode im giving is mostly factual, i am a programmer, ive played w pb2 before as in a slighty more technical side, ive made netcodes before (not as complicated as pb2s) and did have classes on the topic, as i said ive hacked/modded pb2 (eric knows that and eric has a very interesting view on this idk if he ever made this public, i also told him how i did it), and i do have a good idea of how servers work since i do pay mine and such
but the data itself is hard to work with, even the poll one considering what ive said, theres also the fact its outdated as you mention

my idea with this post was to be more informative showing a few facts people ignore, such as the fact packet loss is a thing and everybody ignores it in this game while it is very relevant in others and it is the bane of game developers in my experience, also to show that other games are alive and well even with trash netcode (see escape from tarkov)







Master Chief 0 wrote:Plazmaburst 2 netcode in general is BAD. None of that netcodes is as good as the other as well, if both exist then I would commit that both sucks as hell and the multiplayer is HORRIBLE at all time and it will stay bad forever because each netcode is more retard than the other, the old one makes your weapons shots after 0,5 seconds where you can literally dodge any shot and miss the point where the other opponents could've killed you easily.

both netcodes suck, i agree, the thing is, this one is solvable, the other one isnt, a third option is probably too much, pb2.5/3/whatever will probably use one similar to the current one
the old one your weapons didnt shoot after 0.5 seconds, people took damage after 0.5, you only shot 0.5 seconds after if you have a ping of 500, in that case you rly shouldnt be playing a game yno, can you play any other game consistently with 500 ping? theres a reason why most games are unplayable with that, youre half a second in delay, the new one you actually are half a second in delay and it is unplayable, but it is fair for other players and 500 might be too much but 100, 200 etc is still playable, not to mention how theres less desync with the new system making custom maps better, but yeah the old system was easy to abuse for high ping players

The new one is just uhh. pretty much worse than you think because even if your weapons shot faster but there is a definite nightmare ass tanking in the game cause your weapon wasn't charged but fully tricks you and thinks that it's ready for use and when you shot at someone it doesn't count and also that because of the slow frame rate that always players use like 30 WTF they don't know the most suggested one is 60?

this was a thing in the old netcode as well, people seem to ignore this, syncing bullets and weapon states is extremely costly on the server side so it is not viable, mostly for pb2, yno, this isnt an issue of the new netcode people! its an issue of any netcode that is viable for pb2, what you can do is think, hold the weapon for longer after picking it up so it charges, the most frustrating thing is how how accurate the weapon youre firing is randomized locally which can be very frustrating, but syncing this for fast firing weapons is going to cause so much general lag in the servers and such it is not viable, also the 20/30/60 FPS thing also happens in the older netcode, it is also an issue of PB2, this is probably what contributes people with bad computers (who in practice play the game at FPS values lower than 15) generally seem to have an advantage, a lot of players considered good in the past fit this, an example that comes to mind is the player king xlr who had a youtube channel, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuwzyS ... qem55CZf5w

And soo while they move they think they are moving fast but with the low fps they do be lagging while self boosting, once you get one and basically it doesn't count your shot cause his moves are so delayed and well so bad, there isn't a game that delays gun firing trigger like the hell is this type of game do we play?

yeah it looks like they are teleporting because of the server syncing and such, you need to predict that, it is unfair, how to solve that? give good computers to everyone??? FPS requirements??? anyway any sort of method of separation betwen players is just worse for the game in general, MAYBE fine for ranked but still, pb2 isnt a game community id say has good computers (a dude said he runs pb2 poorly, the thign is, the min requirements to play pb2 minimally well are way, way lower than what is required to play good like poggers 3d games, the issue is that pb2 is poorly optimized, mostly because of flash, so you cant get super high FPS values in it)

Just not to be annoying like every time i just wanna say that Plazma burst 2 multiplayer netcodes are f*cked up where each one of them delay something in the game to prevent that thing from working at the current required time.

this is implied by ANY netcode, you ask games that do this, go play cs go, battlefield, fortnite, whatever, actually, go play any game, might as well be a moba, try ot hit a skillshot in league or dota, or even deliciously exquisite pizza sauce go play online chess, if your ping is high, you will have a delay, just like how the current netcode works, if you ahve half a second left in chess and make a move it MIGHT (this might be handled locally) make your move not go and you lose because of lack of time, this is extremely easy to see in valve games imo because of how they are programmed, cs go and dota it is literally a delay that makes it borderline unplayable in cs go and if ur rly good u can still play dota, but half a second? 500 ms? for that to happen you must be playing rly far from home, like im from brazil, if i queue on chinese servers i dont get 500 ms, ping is affected by internet speed tho (its the size of the package youre sending/receiving divided by the internet speed of yours in miliseconds, upload and download respectively)
the thing is, other games have money, and they can pay for good servers, which causes the games to give you literally 10 ping in close servers, while in pb2... you get... two servers which arent even taht good and ive never seen someone w that low of a ping, even with people who live near the servers like washington (used to be better cuz lower load) or california or ukraine

Weird thing that you are talking about the PB2 netcode nowadays in 2021 of flash's death.

whats the issue w giving some information about how netcodes work in general and explaining why i believe the new one is better and how it is solvable with more resources, it is very likely what eric will use for pb2.5/3/whatever considering his comments on the topic before
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Re: for those who think pb2 has a bad netcode

Postby yi en » 20 April 2021, 14:51

Side Note: This argument won't even have a winner until eric somehow comes out PB2.5's "better" netcode which can shut both people up and make them enjoy the new feature.

SIde Note 2: Actually the war of the netcode in PB2 are basically as same as Minecraft <1.9 and >1.9 combat mode. Which both upsets few of the people (due to the timing indicator broke a lot of mechanics). Until then, even mojang studios themselves are developing third option and I suggested that will even break PvP circles further into shards. In this case third option of netcode is not avaliable for PB2 as minecraft already experimented that for us.

Side Note 3: Both netcode sucks, in kinda france vs england in hundred years of wars. But let's hope when Pb2.5 is out both sides of netcodes can be friend together just like how france and england does at present.

Side Note 4: What if the both netcode sucks due to the same reason which is called packet loss? this would be an interesting discussion for there.

Side Note 5: Someone please make a video about the commentary of netcode war please-
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Re: for those who think pb2 has a bad netcode

Postby phsc » 20 April 2021, 16:58

yi en wrote:Side Note: This argument won't even have a winner until eric somehow comes out PB2.5's "better" netcode which can shut both people up and make them enjoy the new feature.

i disagree, the current netcode is the industry standard in gaming because with more and better servers it is the best experience that is possible without being extremely expensive that youre going to get

SIde Note 2: Actually the war of the netcode in PB2 are basically as same as Minecraft <1.9 and >1.9 combat mode. Which both upsets few of the people (due to the timing indicator broke a lot of mechanics). Until then, even mojang studios themselves are developing third option and I suggested that will even break PvP circles further into shards. In this case third option of netcode is not avaliable for PB2 as minecraft already experimented that for us.

no its not, that case it s just a game mechanic, this one is how the game functions, again may i repeat, the old pb2 netcode is inherently unfair as in people with high ping, desync and packet loss have an advantage, no matter the quality of the servers or anything, the current one gives an advantage to those with low ping (actually people with high ping get a disavantage but it matters little), this is solvable with more servers and better servers that lower peoples ping, just like any other game works, its not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of objective advantage and who gets it, the perfect system is impossible but the closest it is possible to get to it is achievable with the current netcode, eric probably knows that, all game companies know and that is why they use this format of netcode, the thing is, they have money and can pay for servers

Side Note 3: Both netcode sucks, in kinda france vs england in hundred years of wars. But let's hope when Pb2.5 is out both sides of netcodes can be friend together just like how france and england does at present.

both dont suck you literally dont explain anything dude, an opinion has no value unless it is justified, youre just giving deliciously exquisite pizza sauce retarded comparations nobody asked for and they are very deliciously exquisite pizza sauce bad, both netcodes have issues, yes, the NETCODE itself that is used currently is better but the SERVERS limit it, while the older one, no matter the servers, is going to be unfair, got it?

Side Note 4: What if the both netcode sucks due to the same reason which is called packet loss? this would be an interesting discussion for there.

???????????
both netcodes dont use because of packet loss because packet loss is ALWAYS going to exist, because it isnt about the netcode or anything, it is mostly about the user, the CONNECTION, you literally dont understand what ive said by saying like its so visible now, it is implied that packet loss exists, the issue with the old netcode is that by syncing less (eg, player positions) and defending more on local aspects, packet loss is more VISIBLE because packet loss itself shouldnt be an issue, but what it causes which is desync/disconnection is an issue, if you have 100% packet loss you literally just... disconnected yno, the thing is, the 3% packet loss, whatever taht is, can either cause you to disconnect because its core inforamtion, or it might just solve it locally and get information next time, this can be about bullets firing, the position of weapons, or anything really, it can be triggers, and this causes absurd issues, the new system is better but still flawed but still, the core difference betwen the netcodes is mostly focused on the competitive side of things, which is, player positioning is actually properly synced to the servers in a more direct way and this includes player deaths and such which causes the classic situation where someone shoots someone, they die in theri screen, then ressurect, in the old system a lot couldve gone wrong, the thing is, if everybody has a ping of 10, the current system works fine, the older one would be still kinda shit depending on many factors, is the current netcode perfect? no, projectiles are not synced but this is not viable, a lot of trigger related things are not synced, this is good and bad, there is the classic idea of not syncing things so some mechanics work individually, and the idea of syncing eveyrthing so its less of a map making pain, the thing is, syncing is POSSIBLE, but it takes time and effort, its up to the map maker, with this i think it is the best system since it does give the map maker the choice, at the cost of their time and also it requires some knowledge about map making



my ping in california: ~200-250
my ping in ukraine: ~300
am i complaining?

the thing is, what single game thats not like a tabletop turn based or anything (like chess, tft, etc) game is viable with over 250 ping? turns out youre not supposed to play a game with a delay of 1/4 seconds, well, youre not the target audience! this is how games work because it is the only way to be fair, you want to play in some region thats far as deliciously exquisite pizza sauce? your issue bro not mine, other players who choose the right server n live near it shouldnt be treated poorly because someone wants to play the game and turns out they are from very far, not to mention how the old system was actually abusable, you could force high ping, desync, packet loss and everything to get an advantage, the current one? if you force that, you get a disavantage, and theres all the hacking stuff ive mentioned before

side note: every time you say "netcode war" i deliciously exquisite pizza sauce cringe
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