by phsc » 3 January 2019, 23:30
keynes vs hayek pb2 edition
if the individual is collectivist, stryde-sniper should be approved as the majority says it should be, makes sense i guess, then our lovely staff goes there n approves it, perfect sense
if the individual is individualistic, the map should also be approved as being individualistic implies freedom, and one has the right to play stryde-sniper, if a lot of people think "stryde sniper is nice" stryde sniper is still nice because it works the same way as a market n the market is a collectivist concept, etc
but theres another problem, map approval is controlled not by a "pb2 market" yet by a lovely staff team
which implies an authoritarian system, i mean, id say all games do, no hacking n etc
so what ends up happening is, the approval system cant work with the concept of free market, i mean of course custom maps have always been like that, and its pretty easy to make a map that is going to be really popular, trough all the years, generic simple bases that get spammed become the popular maps n etc, its literally the same concept things like music industry uses
but problem is, its like taking music and putting it into literal high music and low music, and i mean if we didnt do that in pb2 people would just create maps for farming n there would be no competitive play considering how the website works, based on kills
and even then id say its still more of a grind than skill, even with the pp system that in theory was made to kill farming
so, we have a problem, the concept of free market isnt a thing in pb2, and if we just let all maps count toward kills, people will be abusive, so i decided id try to come up with a few solutions:
-the recommend for approval feature being the main feature if a map is approved or not, and we unnapprove all pb2 maps, BUT ALSO ADD A OPITION FOR RECOMMEND FOR UNNAPROVAL, so if a map has been approved but a lot of people want it unnaproved, it is, staff members just go in an verify the ratings and if the maps breaks any major rules such as being next level abusive, having map making issues such as walls not overlapping, or if it has unfair advatanges
this will make so that, if more people hate stryde snipre than enjoy it, well, goodbye, also add a small number as a minimal, lets say idk 5% of pb2s daily population wants a map approved, approved it is, or some quite minor value
even then this system can be abused, lets say paulstin adds a second rule to dark clan which is RECOMMEND STRYDE-SNIPER for approval, we are doomed
or, we can go full ancap pb2 edition
-all maps count towards kills, BUT private maps, so if theres an abusive god in a map killing everyone, everybody can just kick him out of the map, killing the generic idea of public modern custom maps making so they always have to be private, but maybe add the option to give gamemaster or not in private maps, and show it in pb2s lobby
any problem with any systems feedback is constructive always no matter how much ad hominem you use, just try to have a point n not pure logical fallacies like some ppl in this community do
BUT ANYWAY, about stryde sniper i guess
its a simple map, whats the problem? people like pop music, it takes over classical music, and id say most ppl who studied music theory understand how crappy pop music is, but is it bad? bad and good is subjective, you cant impose your good over others peoples good, you dont have the same empiric experiences as them, and even then, your best mostly comes from what your cocnept of platonic beauty is, and their is different, but not only because of empiricism but also because of psychology too, there are different personality types, different people, different cultures, one cant say that the passacaglia and fugue in c minor bwv 582 is better than gucci gang, because maybe the methods for what attributes good and bad are different
but anyway, the general idea of this debate is to reach a point where most people agree, and wont lie, its mostly heavily elitist people who use the forums, but well, who is the main public of pb2, random kids, why should we care about map quality
i mean thats a collectivist argument of course, but you can still make your lovely elitist realistic war map, majority still rules approval after all, you can approve a perfect map but if people dont like it, who cares, its not pragmatic
i mean, its literally making a fugue and wanting people who listen to taylor swift to enjoy it, it doesnt happen, you either teach people how to enjoy your map, or you dont and they dont, simple as that
skillcap in pb2 is already quite ridiculously low, there are many more important factors such as the terrible syncing which literally is luck most of the case, and lag that just boosts the terrible syncing, general abuse of bugs n glitches and even the deliciously exquisite pizza sauce different physics modes that change the way the game runs whihc also deliciously exquisite pizza sauce the syncing, but if we take a pure skill based, any map has a skill cap, and higher skill cap means the map is in a general way less enjoyable, we can take a look at the market for that, DOTA is less popular than LOL, civilization games are less popular than warcraft or starcraft, not saying one is better than another everyone has their tastes, and considering that concept we can see it works in pb2, complex maps tend to be way less popular than simple maps
and stryde-sniper is simple, in theory we could use a lovely post hoc ergo propter hoc n maybe some non sequitor to top it off and say that stryde-sniper has a low skill cap and i guess most ppl would believe it
but actually, the skill cap isnt different from most maps, thing is, most people are already quite good at it, and new players have fun at it, its not like a game such as DOTA where a noob realy doesnt have any joy at all and a pro deliciously exquisite pizza sauce loves it, everyone can have fun, but next level elitist people, but these people almost dont even play pb2, and if they do they can just go play the specific map they want
approval isnt about quality its about efficiency id say, and stryde-sniper is efficient, eg-rw is efficient, realwar is efficient but not in the same aspect, the skill cap is really minimal, and thats a map i guess that if my theory of vote for approval and vote for unnaproval worked im pretty sure that map wouldnt be approved
but then maybe we can add a rate too, even tho the system would still be kinda flawed but maybe give minimal requeriments
also about requeriments what about letting 6 month old players vote on maps too?
and also make so not active people, those who arent included in top lists cant vote becuase they dont even bother going into the website in 60 days and that can easily be an alternative account
but anyway, the skill cap factor isnt a thing i guess, simplicity is also not
who said skill is what matters in approved maps, because we assume that because theres a top 100 that works based on it, it must be purely skill based, but well, it is mostly a grind not pure skill, the best possible pb2 player, someone who literally doesnt die, hell even a hacker who isnt bannable, wouldnt read top 1 playing in a week, the time factor is more important than the skill factor, and well, imo what affects that is fun, not skill, and what makes stryde sniper popualr is a equilibrium of skill, fun and in a general way old popularity and the fact people already are kinda good at it and wouldnt want its death
now heres my specific view, i think pb2 shouldnt ahve a top 100, its ridiculous, it should list most popular rated maps, players with most kills, players with biggest kd, maybe some form of kd to total kill ratio, pp, even the old rank points thing i forgot the exact name that was used back then in the tops, also ldr and specific map showdown, but the way it works now imo isnt great, and use my system for map approval and dissaproval, the first not the full ancap one
any problems just give me critics i might have deliciously exquisite pizza sauce something up but meh i dont realy care if u tell me im a idiot or like bad at the game or smth cuz thats pure ad hominem n well, tahts a logical FALLACY, such as many other fallacies that people seem not to realize are fallacies
n i guess thats it