Make all maps able to see but not edit by default

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Make all maps able to see but not edit by default

Postby IforgotmypasswordHaHAA » 30 March 2020, 14:50

Some of you have already read a claim made by someone asking mapmakers to make all their maps ''Open source'' and some may also have read people being against it due to people abusing said function to steal other people's work by simply copy/pasting the entire map. Based on that I'm gonna suggest a solution that will benefit both groups.
My idea is a map option pretty much like the ''Open source'' where you can see how triggers work, the object backgrounds and other stuff properties in the map but without the ability to copy or edit the original map in any way so cases of people that steal other works are not possible and at the same time people don't have to ask to see how a feature works in someone's else map. I want this option set as default and without any way to disable it. If you can't take advantage of stealing someone's map entirely I won't see a point into keeping someone into checking someone's work for educational purposes. I don't see any reason to keep someone from seeing your work if this is implemented, although someone may disagree, and in my opinion someone that disagrees despite what i mentioned is not worth talking to.
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Re: Make all maps able to see but not edit by default

Postby MLG COOL DOMINIK » 30 March 2020, 16:04

you are trolling i guess.
because
"and in my opinion someone that disagrees despite what i mentioned is not worth talking to."
"I want this option set as default and without any way to disable it. If you can't take advantage of stealing someone's map entirely I won't see a point into keeping someone into checking someone's work for educational purposes."
Nobody actually plays this game now, do they?
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Re: Make all maps able to see but not edit by default

Postby Girl_Power » 30 March 2020, 22:13

This new system you're talking about might work, but I highly disagree it should be enabled by default. If this system were to be implemented into PB2, it should be an option where the map owner gets to decide whether or not he/she would like to enable it. In other words, this system is a good idea if it isn't enabled by default but instead an option.
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Re: Make all maps able to see but not edit by default

Postby IforgotmypasswordHaHAA » 31 March 2020, 05:50

MLG COOL DOMINIK wrote:you are trolling i guess.
because
"and in my opinion someone that disagrees despite what i mentioned is not worth talking to."
"I want this option set as default and without any way to disable it. If you can't take advantage of stealing someone's map entirely I won't see a point into keeping someone into checking someone's work for educational purposes."


No, I think YOU are trolling. You have done nothing but quote my posts and accusing me instead of giving any argument that proves why you consider my argument is trolling. Not only that, you also reinforce the idea that people like you are not worth talking to.

Girl_Power wrote:This new system you're talking about might work, but I highly disagree it should be enabled by default. If this system were to be implemented into PB2, it should be an option where the map owner gets to decide whether or not he/she would like to enable it. In other words, this system is a good idea if it isn't enabled by default but instead an option.


And what are the reasons behind someone should not want to share the maps trigger functions? All I see is people gatekeeping people from learning new mapping techniques for the sake of.. nothing? Do people hide their bank accounts on their maps or something?
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Re: Make all maps able to see but not edit by default

Postby Girl_Power » 31 March 2020, 06:38

IforgotmypasswordHaHAA wrote:And what are the reasons behind someone should not want to share the maps trigger functions? All I see is people gatekeeping people from learning new mapping techniques for the sake of.. nothing?


Everyone has different reasons for why they keep their maps closed. I prefer to keep most of my maps closed because there have been times when people copy my maps for their own benefits while my maps were open-sourced. I do have some maps open-sourced and those are my testing maps. I keep all of my testing maps open-sourced so others can learn about the trigger functions and other things in the map if they wish. If someone truly wants to learn more about trigger functions, the forum is always available and they can ask others to open-source their maps.

If someone decides to close their map source or refuse to open source their map when someone asks, respect their decision. No one should be forced to let others see their map source. And besides, maybe their map has secret triggers and regions where they don't want others to know, such as the famous Paul308-base design. I'm sure that if Paul308 decides to open-source his base map again, there would be multiple copies of it.
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Re: Make all maps able to see but not edit by default

Postby IforgotmypasswordHaHAA » 31 March 2020, 07:36

Girl_Power wrote:Everyone has different reasons for why they keep their maps closed. I prefer to keep most of my maps closed because there have been times when people copy my maps for their own benefits while my maps were open-sourced. I do have some maps open-sourced and those are my testing maps. I keep all of my testing maps open-sourced so others can learn about the trigger functions and other things in the map if they wish. If someone truly wants to learn more about trigger functions, the forum is always available and they can ask others to open-source their maps.

Girl_Power wrote:I'm sure that if Paul308 decides to open-source his base map again, there would be multiple copies of it.


The process of copying a map in my scenario won't be possible at all, I said you are unable to copy and paste anything from said map, making the stealing process very hard to come up. You'll basically have to ''copy'' every single object one by one and write every trigger from scracth if you wish to steal in this scenario, do you think someone would bother with all that work just so his map gets reported and ragevoted for copying?

Besides, if people are able to copy someone's entire work without punishment, that's pretty much a problem with the moderation system, not the feature itself. I assure you that if more people get punished for said action, it won't be an issue at all. Should we disable chat entirely just because a couple of idiots say the n word, or should we ban the people that use said word?

Girl_Power wrote:If someone truly wants to learn more about trigger functions, the forum is always available


My forum post regarding trigger functions questions is still left unanswered after weeks.

So, what's better?
1_ making a forum post that may be answered after 1 day and not completely adressed

or

2_ almost instantly find out the answer yourself by checking out a map that has said function implemented.

I think it's easy to assume which method is far more effective and helpful.

Girl_Power wrote:and they can ask others to open-source their maps.


And if said person is inactive for months/forever or doesn't want to?

Girl_Power wrote:And besides, maybe their map has secret triggers and regions where they don't want others to know, such as the famous Paul308-base design.


That's a good reason; However, paulbase is awful game design so I wouldn't even care if it suffers because of it either way.


Girl_Power wrote:If someone decides to close their map source or refuse to open source their map when someone asks, respect their decision.


I will never respect someone that has such backwards mentality, ever. I've seen this group of people on other games, for example there's someone that made a tool to mod a game and left his tool close-sourced because of ''muh copyright'', gatekeeping the people that want to modify said tool to improve and expand the modding capabilities. His backwards mentality pretty much is gatekeeping said game from progressing further into the modding facet.
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Re: Make all maps able to see but not edit by default

Postby nightmar » 31 March 2020, 11:10

IforgotmypasswordHaHAA wrote:
Girl_Power wrote:
The process of copying a map in my scenario won't be possible at all, I said you are unable to copy and paste anything from said map, making the stealing process very hard to come up. You'll basically have to ''copy'' every single object one by one and write every trigger from scracth if you wish to steal in this scenario, do you think someone would bother with all that work just so his map gets reported and ragevoted for copying?

Actually I am sure that in order to entirely copy a map people will copy separately ever single object in it. Just look at the "remakes" of bases where, even though the map had no open source the one who copies it remakes everything he finds in that map

Girl_Power wrote:And besides, maybe their map has secret triggers and regions where they don't want others to know, such as the famous Paul308-base design.


That's a good reason; However, paulbase is awful game design so I wouldn't even care if it suffers because of it either way.

Paul base is an example. Many maps have secrets players are not supposed to just know. Besides, you can't overlook a map if affected by this, even if you don't like it

Girl_Power wrote:If someone decides to close their map source or refuse to open source their map when someone asks, respect their decision.


I will never respect someone that has such backwards mentality, ever. I've seen this group of people on other games, for example there's someone that made a tool to mod a game and left his tool close-sourced because of ''muh copyright'', gatekeeping the people that want to modify said tool to improve and expand the modding capabilities. His backwards mentality pretty much is gatekeeping said game from progressing further into the modding facet.


Unless if the the game developer and the staff team says otherwise, it's one's right whether or not they will give access to their map making knowledge.
How many bugs does this game have anyway? jeez
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Re: Make all maps able to see but not edit by default

Postby IforgotmypasswordHaHAA » 31 March 2020, 13:44

nightmar wrote:Unless if the the game developer and the staff team says otherwise, it's one's right whether or not they will give access to their map making knowledge.


I don't see the point of repeating something I've already adressed 2 posts ago but ok.

I'll leave this topic for the staff to decide since there's not a single meaningful take in the thread.
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Re: Make all maps able to see but not edit by default

Postby mrblake213 » 31 March 2020, 18:44

Just to add, there is no current system to implement a map copyright system.

We wouldn't be able to determine the original mapmaker other than the "map creation date" and "last updated on" date but that would still be difficult.

It is also difficult to determine an original copy of the map because of the limited features of the ALE, there will be instances that similarities would be present.
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