Plazma Burst 2 and 3

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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby Hikarikaze » 15 January 2019, 04:48

jdc55 wrote:I never said you did mention rockets. I'm just clearing that space to save time, before you start using that as another argument.

So you weaken your own argument further by using it as another straw man.

jdc55 wrote:Well, if it isn't rockets, then what is it? Lol. There's no other map type that is qualified for competitive

Yes, because simply saying that there's no other map type that's qualified means there truly is no other map type that can be competitive.

There are map types that can be competitive, just not in the way a competition like this one would be. Saw maps for example in one way can be competitive if used as a speedrun contest, but it wouldn't be competitive in a combative league. This really just depends on the "competition" in question, but we don't seem to be talking about specifics here. Are there other types of maps that are competitive? Yes, there are. Are those maps suitable enough for a league similar to this one? No, but this doesn't change the fact other map types can be competitive if you see it from a broad perspective.

Since you erroneously brought up an entire counterargument for rocket maps, I'll use that as an example, because rocket launchers like any other weapon in this game do have a skill curve attached to it. A lot of general skills just happen to overlap with basic game skills to a point where it seems like rocket launchers aren't skillful weapons. If there's a skill curve to utilize, then skill can be measured using that skill curve. A competitive league, again, is a measure of skill; rockets in turn can become competitive because of this. This is putting aside variables like players being knowledgeable in rocket maps and anything like that because intrinsic skill curves attached to weapons are independent from those variables.

jdc55 wrote:This is you trying to create new arguments, then probably turning them into false causes. Just saying how I see it.

Says the one creating straw man arguments one after another and arguing random points I never said as if there was a third person here arguing with you.

jdc55 wrote:The only words that came out my mouth were "what PL did was throw game type categories out the window, and just made every single map random no matter the game type." Nowhere in there did I say "I was for this system".

The point is that the way you worded your "explanation" made your argument both for and against the system at the same time. If you would literally just read for once, you would probably get it sooner or later.

jdc55 wrote:Randomization is the slight difference in our proposing systems. And I'm not saying that the slight difference isn't worth a lot.

You're the one saying that I'm agreeing to your system but also saying that I'm agreeing to a variation of your system, the variation being "randomization." Those two aren't the same thing. It doesn't matter if the difference is minor or major; the presence of that difference matters, and it's the fact that difference is there that you can't say I agree to your system because it's literally not your system I'm agreeing to.

jdc55 wrote:A slight difference may not make them exactly the same, but it can make them basically the same.

A similarity shared between two things doesn't make those things equal; it makes those two things comparable.

"Basically the same" isn't the same as "being the same."

jdc55 wrote:Well you definitely need to mention if your Pro-Best of 5 or Pro-Best of 3.

No I don't. It's a straw man argument that I never made so why should I stick to your fallacious counterargument?

jdc55 wrote: Because when you say things like "Who says it has to be best of 3?", does that not imply that you are "AGAINST" Best of 3?

When I asked "who said it had to be best of 3," it wasn't implying that I was taking a position. It was literally just a straightforward question that you twisted to make the straw man argument that you still keep using.

I asked who said it because I wanted to know who said it, not to take a position of some kind.

jdc55 wrote:You can't be for Best of 6, because that's simply excessive, and there are literally no other competitive map types that would fit a 3v3 league format. Can't be best of 7, because if you believe that, then you are just simply clueless and would prove you don't know how this works. And I know you aren't clueless. So it has to be Best of 5.. Because best of 5 is the best format for a competitive league that has 5 Competitive Map types. You can stay neutral on this if you want. I don't really care. Don't respond to this comment for all I care, I'm not here to prove people wrong and make them feel bad. (p.s I'm not throwing any shade, I'm genuinely being truthful).

You're still stuck on this "best of X" straw man argument that it's just sad at this point lol
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby jdc55 » 15 January 2019, 14:37

Hikarikaze wrote: Are there other types of maps that are competitive? Yes, there are. Are those maps suitable enough for a league similar to this one? No

Um? What? Why even bring them up then if our specific topic is on PL and making it better? Are you not being a hypocrite by doing this? Because I can call this straw man myself. I'm obviously talking about approved Competitive map types. Custom map types shouldn't even be in this discussion for an argument. In no way shape or form should a custom map be in this league. So why even bring it up? Just seems like what you claim I use... Straw man.

Except I don't use straw man.

Hikarikaze wrote:I never said you did mention rockets. I'm just clearing that space to save time, before you start using that as another argument.

You think I'm using straw man by saying this? When it clearly relates to your response. "There are other competitive map types". And my response was "It can't be rockets (Explanation to why) So what other map types then?"

You can claim Straw man all you want. Just because I'm not dodging comments and I'm responding with full detail and explanation doesn't make it Straw man.

Hikarikaze wrote:The point is that the way you worded your "explanation" made your argument both for and against the system at the same time. If you would literally just read for once, you would probably get it sooner or later.


So me saying "what PL did was throw game type categories out the window, and just made every single map random no matter the game type" words that I'm for and against this system? So explaining a system means I'm for it? If you think this is worded in a way where it sounds like I'm for it, then is my reputation safe discussing with you? :D Lol I'm just joking. But anyway, nothing in that comment states that I'm for or against it. It just explains a system.

Hikarikaze wrote:A similarity shared between two things doesn't make those things equal; it makes those two things comparable.

Similarities*

jdc55 wrote:Well you definitely need to mention if your Pro-Best of 5 or Pro-Best of 3.


Hikarikaze wrote:No I don't. It's a straw man argument that I never made so why should I stick to your fallacious counterargument?

Again, It isn't straw man. Best of 5 and Best of 3 play a huge role in this argument. You argued for randomness, and I responded and told you why it's worse with both Best of 5 and Best of 3. It isn't straw man. The league is without a doubt going to have a "Best of X" format like it always has. So me explaining why your argument isn't good for this format isn't straw man. It's a perfect representation as to why it shouldn't be in this format.

Please allow me to ask you to stop commenting "Straw man" to a perfectly valid claim. It only makes your straw man comments look like straw man themselves.

Hikarikaze wrote:I asked who said it because I wanted to know who said it, not to take a position of some kind.

Specifically 2 seasons of PL said it. There you go. :roll:

Hikarikaze wrote:You're still stuck on this "best of X" straw man argument that it's just sad at this point lol

Lol Do we have to go over this again? Didn't think so.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby Alien security heavy » 15 January 2019, 18:50

Add a trigger for multiplayer COOP which gives us following:
End round with team A being victorious.
Basically for COOP/PVE maps in multiplayer.
That's all I am asking for
Act like you know me, but do you even know yourself?
When you got nothin’, you got nothin’ to lose.
I may have no one else to blame, but listen to me.
You and I, we were once the same.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby darkstar 1 » 15 January 2019, 19:09

Alien security heavy wrote:Add a trigger for multiplayer COOP which gives us following:
End round with team A being victorious.
Basically for COOP/PVE maps in multiplayer.
That's all I am asking for

Why not just kill the opposite team at the end of the round?



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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby Hikarikaze » 15 January 2019, 21:34

jdc55 wrote:Um? What? Why even bring them up then if our specific topic is on PL and making it better? Are you not being a hypocrite by doing this? Because I can call this straw man myself. I'm obviously talking about approved Competitive map types. Custom map types shouldn't even be in this discussion for an argument. In no way shape or form should a custom map be in this league. So why even bring it up? Just seems like what you claim I use... Straw man.

You literally just repeated what I said. I even said that the first example wouldn't be applicable to something like PL or whatever your league goes by. How is this a straw man? You asked me what other competitive maps there were, and I answered you with two examples from two different perspectives. You clearly don't know what a straw man argument is.

jdc55 wrote:Except I don't use straw man.

You used at least three straw man arguments so far, but I suppose it's easier for you to be in denial than to read.

jdc55 wrote:You think I'm using straw man by saying this? When it clearly relates to your response. "There are other competitive map types". And my response was "It can't be rockets (Explanation to why) So what other map types then?"

When you make a counterargument against a point I never made from the start, that's a straw man. When I never mentioned rocket maps first and you go ahead and argue against rocket maps specifically, that's literally nothing but a straw man.

And as for your response, I responded back to your response with a counterargument of my own - something you called a straw man when it's not by definition. Since you had brought up rocket maps first through your straw man and I responded to it, that doesn't make my argument a straw man.

jdc55 wrote:So me saying "what PL did was throw game type categories out the window, and just made every single map random no matter the game type" words that I'm for and against this system? So explaining a system means I'm for it? If you think this is worded in a way where it sounds like I'm for it, then is my reputation safe discussing with you? Lol I'm just joking. But anyway, nothing in that comment states that I'm for or against it. It just explains a system.

I explained it to you already but you don't want to read so there's nothing more I can do to help you understand lol

jdc55 wrote:Again, It isn't straw man. Best of 5 and Best of 3 play a huge role in this argument. You argued for randomness, and I responded and told you why it's worse with both Best of 5 and Best of 3. It isn't straw man. The league is without a doubt going to have a "Best of X" format like it always has. So me explaining why your argument isn't good for this format isn't straw man. It's a perfect representation as to why it shouldn't be in this format.

Again, I never brought up the "best of X" point and yet you created a counterargument following this point. That's a straw man argument. Denying it won't make it less true.

jdc55 wrote:Please allow me to ask you to stop commenting "Straw man" to a perfectly valid claim. It only makes your straw man comments look like straw man themselves.

Not only are you ignorant in how competitive leagues work, you're also ignorant in how fallacies work.

Your claim isn't "valid" if you constantly weaken your own position by employing multiple straw man arguments. I've responded to the points you've made, therefore I haven't made any straw man arguments.

jdc55 wrote:Specifically 2 seasons of PL said it. There you go.

You're not arguing against the 2 seasons of PL here so that entire counterargument you made is still a straw man argument

jdc55 wrote:Lol Do we have to go over this again? Didn't think so.

For you, it seems like we can go over this infinitely and you still won't get it. Why you keep responding with desperate counterarguments from out of nowhere is beyond me.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby jdc55 » 16 January 2019, 00:15

Hikarikaze wrote:You literally just repeated what I said. I even said that the first example wouldn't be applicable to something like PL or whatever your league goes by. How is this a straw man? You asked me what other competitive maps there were, and I answered you with two examples from two different perspectives. You clearly don't know what a straw man argument is.

Different perspectives that have literally nothing to do with our topic. We're talking about PL. "Plazma League". Saw maps don't have anything to do with that. So you bringing that up is completely pointless. See, I can claim Straw man too, just like you man. Except I can really consider this Straw man.

Hikarikaze wrote:You used at least three straw man arguments so far, but I suppose it's easier for you to be in denial than to read.

jdc55 wrote:You think I'm using straw man by saying this? When it clearly relates to your response. "There are other competitive map types". And my response was "It can't be rockets (Explanation to why) So what other map types then?"


jdc55 wrote:Again, It isn't straw man. Best of 5 and Best of 3 play a huge role in this argument. You argued for randomness, and I responded and told you why it's worse with both Best of 5 and Best of 3. It isn't straw man. The league is without a doubt going to have a "Best of X" format like it always has. So me explaining why your argument isn't good for this format isn't straw man. It's a perfect representation as to why it shouldn't be in this format.

Read those two quotes from me again, Because clearly anything is Straw man to you.

Hikarikaze wrote:Again, I never brought up the "best of X" point and yet you created a counterargument following this point. That's a straw man argument. Denying it won't make it less true.

You don't need to bring up "Best of X". Best of X is basically implemented to the system, And I'm simply telling you how your Randomization proposal makes it worse with Best of 5 and Best of 3. How is that straw man? Straw man is explaining to you how your proposal doesn't work with a system? Is this what your claiming? Just because you don't bring something up doesn't make my counterargument Straw man. My counterargument is against your Randomization, and how it's simply the worse way to go about "Best of X". That isn't Straw man. You may wanna look up the definition again.

Hikarikaze wrote:Not only are you ignorant in how competitive leagues work

I'm going to keep throwing this in your face. ME: 6 Succesful events You: 0

Hikarikaze wrote:You're not arguing against the 2 seasons of PL here so that entire counterargument you made is still a straw man argument

"Straw man, Straw man, Straw man". Can you please make a good counterargument for once?

I already told you why Randomization is worse with the last league's format. Now can you please argue otherwise instead of commenting "Straw man". You can't even come up with a counterargument yourself. Your steady stuck on trying to make my counterarguments look bad, when you can't even come up with one yourself.

You can keep saying Straw man all you want, but can you argue against my initial proposal?
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby Hikarikaze » 16 January 2019, 01:40

jdc55 wrote:Different perspectives that have literally nothing to do with our topic. We're talking about PL. "Plazma League". Saw maps don't have anything to do with that. So you bringing that up is completely pointless.

Again, I had already acknowledged that in the same post I brought up that example right before bringing up a more relevant example. You then called it a straw man before repeating what I had literally said then and even now. However, you can't call my counterargument a straw man because my response was a direct answer to your question. I'm not attacking a point that you hadn't brought up here.

You had also asked in a general way so I gave you a general answer. You keep focusing on the "saw maps" part instead of the more fitting example for some reason.

jdc55 wrote:Read those two quotes from me again, Because clearly anything is Straw man to you.

I only said three of your arguments were straw man arguments, even though you used a lot more than that. Unless you want to tell me you only had three arguments, I haven't considered anything else besides just those three points a straw man yet.

jdc55 wrote:You don't need to bring up "Best of X".

You're right and it's the reason I still haven't brought it up despite you constantly attacking that point lol

jdc55 wrote:Straw man is explaining to you how your proposal doesn't work with a system? Is this what your claiming?

You still haven't shown reading comprehension so I'll repeat it again:

When you attack a point I haven't made, it's a straw man. Since I never brought up "best of X" and you keep countering against that point, anything you say in a counterargument against "best of X" is a straw man, including your explanation.

jdc55 wrote:Just because you don't bring something up doesn't make my counterargument Straw man.

jdc55 wrote:That isn't Straw man. You may wanna look up the definition again.

"A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent." - Wikipedia

Seems like you have some looking up to do instead of me lol

jdc55 wrote:I'm going to keep throwing this in your face. ME: 6 Succesful events You: 0

I ran seven Halo CE tournaments back in 2007 that were a tremendous success so really I have 7 successful events :^)

So it really should be this: you - 6; me - 7. Clearly I'm more competent than you when it comes to competitive leagues. My track record says it all

jdc55 wrote:"Straw man, Straw man, Straw man". Can you please make a good counterargument for once?

I already told you why Randomization is worse with the last league's format. Now can you please argue otherwise instead of commenting "Straw man". You can't even come up with a counterargument yourself. Your steady stuck on trying to make my counterarguments look bad, when you can't even come up with one yourself.

Aww, are you getting upset because I'm calling out your bad arguments? lol

Your best answer to me is "you keep calling anything and everything a straw man" that you're beginning to sound like a crybaby. It's okay to lose arguments against opponents better than you sometimes, but my counterarguments deserve a better response than that

jdc55 wrote:You can keep saying Straw man all you want, but can you argue against my initial proposal?

Oh, I've been countering every argument you throw at me while calling out how fallacious your counterarguments have been. Read and you'll find out some day lol

I'll be here if you want to entertain me some more
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby jdc55 » 16 January 2019, 19:28

Hikarikaze wrote:You had also asked in a general way so I gave you a general answer. You keep focusing on the "saw maps" part instead of the more fitting example for some reason.

You can't bring something up that has nothing to do with this topic, and use it as a counterargument. Saw maps should of never even been part of the conversation, no matter what part of the example it is. Our argument from start to finish has been nothing more than just Plazma League. So therefore I can claim Straw man also. Not fun is it? Getting a taste of your own medicine? Only difference, and I'll say it again, I don't use straw man.

Hikarikaze wrote:When you attack a point I haven't made, it's a straw man. Since I never brought up "best of X" and you keep countering against that point, anything you say in a counterargument against "best of X" is a straw man, including your explanation.

I already attacked your initial point. I told you why your Randomization proposal works worse with the "Best of X" System. Best of X is going to be in Plazma League. So I'm explaining to you why my system is better with it, and why yours is worse with it. Just because you don't make a point towards "Best of X", doesn't mean I can't use it as an argument. I can, because "Best of X" is apart of Plazma League. Best of X isn't an argument that you're using, It's the argument I'm using. It's valid and relates towards your response.

Would you say it's straw man if I explained why your Randomization works worse with "Plazma League"? No. Same reason you shouldn't say Straw man to me explaining why your Randomization works worse with "Best of X". Best of X is already apart of the PL system. It isn't anything additional. It's a format that's already there. So no it's not straw man because it directly counters your point.

I'm starting to feel like you can't argue with this point, so instead you just comment Straw man, even though it directly relates to your response.

Hikarikaze wrote:actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.

Randomization is what your arguing for. Randomization works worse with "Best of X". Was randomization something you presented? Or was it not?

Hikarikaze wrote:I ran seven Halo CE tournaments back in 2007 that were a tremendous success so really I have 7 successful events

Just because I ran 6 PB2 Tournaments, doesn't mean I can run a CoD Tournament. 2 totally different games. For you to even run a tournament, you have to have experience. You have experience with Halo. Not PB2. That doesn't make you more qualified to run a pb2 Tournament than me. :P

Hikarikaze wrote:Your best answer to me is "you keep calling anything and everything a straw man" that you're beginning to sound like a crybaby. It's okay to lose arguments against opponents better than you sometimes, but my counterarguments deserve a better response than that

I already explained to you why my responses aren't Straw man. Lol You can't come with a counterargument. I already even explained my system and why it works best. Yet your responses are just "Straw man". Lol

You're probably the worse person to argue with. Now your resorting to trolling when your clearly losing. You're last replies have been short, and doing nothing but accusing me of Straw man. Basically your last few arguments hasn't had any type of progression.

Hikarikaze wrote:that you're beginning to sound like a crybaby.

Lol If anyone is sounding like a crybaby, It's you. Accusing me of using Straw man in every reply. Won't you put some development in your words, and maybe you can keep up with me. 8)

Hikarikaze wrote:Oh, I've been countering every argument you throw at me while calling out how fallacious your counterarguments have been. Read and you'll find out some day lol

Countering every argument by calling it Straw man of course. One thing you can't counter is my initial proposal. Which why you haven't brought it up in your last 5 or 6 post. Lol Won't you take some time to think before replying so fast and maybe you'll get somewhere in this argument.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby Hikarikaze » 16 January 2019, 20:01

jdc55 wrote:Our argument from start to finish has been nothing more than just Plazma League. So therefore I can claim Straw man also. Not fun is it? Getting a taste of your own medicine? Only difference, and I'll say it again, I don't use straw man.

You can't claim a straw man no matter how hard you try. As for being fun, it's a lot of fun

Getting a taste of my medicine? Yeah, you sure made me OD on it. Too bad I like how my medicine tastes

jdc55 wrote:Best of X isn't an argument that you're using

That's true.

jdc55 wrote:Just because you don't make a point towards "Best of X", doesn't mean I can't use it as an argument. I can, because "Best of X" is apart of Plazma League.

Never said you couldn't use it; I just said it was a straw man argument. Damn, you even made a straw man out of that too lol

jdc55 wrote:Randomization is what your arguing for. Randomization works worse with "Best of X". Was randomization something you presented? Or was it not?

"Best of X" was not what I presented.

jdc55 wrote:Just because I ran 6 PB2 Tournaments, doesn't mean I can run a CoD Tournament. 2 totally different games. For you to even run a tournament, you have to have experience. You have experience with Halo. Not PB2. That doesn't make you more qualified to run a pb2 Tournament than me.

I'm a very humble person so I keep my experience off the radar. I obviously have more experience than just seven tournaments; considering you're whining about me calling your arguments a straw man, I simply didn't want to make you ball up and cry in front of my superior track record. Here's a short list of the competitions I've successfully ran with only my guidance:

- 19 R6S tournaments
- 20 Destiny 1 tournaments
- 21 Halo tournaments (that includes the 7 CE ones)
- 16 CoD tournaments
- 9 small closed PB2 competitions
- 4 SSB tournaments

9 is more than 6 last I heard.

jdc55 wrote:You're probably the worse person to argue with. Now your resorting to trolling when your clearly losing. You're last replies have been short, and doing nothing but accusing me of Straw man. Basically your last few arguments hasn't had any type of progression.

My replies have been short because I don't need to write a paragraph to say the same thing I can say in a few words lol

I truly am the worst person to argue with. That's a very undeniable fact. You're really downplaying my argument's progress though, since my last few arguments have progressed forward by 1.01*(10^-15) of a percent. That counts for something, you know.


jdc55 wrote:Lol If anyone is sounding like a crybaby, It's you. Accusing me of using Straw man in every reply. Won't you put some development in your words, and maybe you can keep up with me.

It's impossible to keep up with someone behind me.

jdc55 wrote:Countering every argument by calling it Straw man of course. One thing you can't counter is my initial proposal. Which why you haven't brought it up in your last 5 or 6 post. Lol Won't you take some time to think before replying so fast and maybe you'll get somewhere in this argument.

So you do have three arguments? That's good to hear.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby jdc55 » 17 January 2019, 00:34

Hikarikaze wrote:Never said you couldn't use it; I just said it was a straw man argument. Damn, you even made a straw man out of that too lol

I told you why it's not. So how exactly is it a Straw man? Lol There you go again. Can't argue with me so you resort to the Straw man thing again. Yikes

Hikarikaze wrote:"Best of X" was not what I presented.

You're right. It was already presented, by Plazma League itself. It's not anything additional. It's been there. Therefore it can be used as part of an argument and not be Straw man. You just seem to amaze me comment after comment, it's actually hilarious Lol.

Hikarikaze wrote:- 19 R6S tournaments
- 20 Destiny 1 tournaments
- 21 Halo tournaments (that includes the 7 CE ones)
- 16 CoD tournaments
- 9 small closed PB2 competitions
- 4 SSB tournaments

Lol! It's funny how your mentioning all this now, when you could've mentioned it when you decided to say "I ran 7 Halo tournaments". Not calling you a liar, but it seems a bit fishy.

Hikarikaze wrote:9 is more than 6 last I heard.

Those 9, aren't 3v3 Competitive Leagues, because if they were, you would have already mentioned that, and you wouldn't be so clueless to how PB2 3v3 Competitive works.

All these tournaments come out of nowhere, with no mention of them anywhere, then you use "I didn't wanna make you cry" as an excuse to finally say them. Super fishy..

Hikarikaze wrote:My replies have been short because I don't need to write a paragraph to say the same thing I can say in a few words lol

Lol No. They're short because you can't come up with a feasible argument. Most of everything you've been saying has just been you accusing me of "Straw man". Won't you add some def in your responses, because everything you reply makes me scratch my head in confusion. I feel like Nick Young and that meme every time I read something from you. Confused, yet amused.

This right here proves you know nothing about PB2 3v3 Competitive.
You think Randomizing Map types in a "Best of X" system is more consistent than just shuffling and organizing the Map types fairly.

And don't say "I said nothing about Best of X". Because Best of X is already apart of Plazma League, and it isn't going anywhere. So before replying that, try again.

You say Randomization puts players and teams out their comfort zone, when the Randomization within the Map types already does that. So there's no need for randomizing Map types. Of course you didn't know that because, by you saying my argument involving the "Best of X" format is Straw man, you're basically denying that "Best of X" is even apart of Plazma League. The only way my argument is Straw man is if I pulled "Best of X" out my anus and it doesn't involve your argument, When clearly it does.

So that right there shows you aren't even close to being qualified in putting your 2 cents in Plazma League. I'm going to actually give you another chance to counter my system again, and see if you can actually stay on topic, instead calling every argument "Straw man".

MATCH (MT= Map Type)
Game 1: Specific MT 1

Game 2: Specific MT 2

Game 3: Specific MT 3

Game 4: Specific MT 4

Game 5: Specific MT 5

Map types will be shuffled throughout every week to give everyone equal playing time in the regular season. Therefore it stays consistent and no one has to miss any matches. This system involves all Core 5 Map types, and the maps within the Map types themselves, will be randomized, forcing players to come out their comfort zones you desperately want.


And before you say I added the Randomization within the map types, you're wrong. The way my system plays out, the maps within the map types have no choice but to be randomized. Yeah, I beat you to it. Try again next time.

By the way, I found out in the PB2 Discord chat that you're a Woman, so I apologize if I referred to you as a Man in my past posts.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby Hikarikaze » 17 January 2019, 03:32

jdc55 wrote:I told you why it's not. So how exactly is it a Straw man? Lol There you go again. Can't argue with me so you resort to the Straw man thing again. Yikes

I told you how it is. So how exactly isn't it a straw man? lol

Can't argue with me so you resort to straw men again

jdc55 wrote:You're right. It was already presented, by Plazma League itself. It's not anything additional. It's been there. Therefore it can be used as part of an argument and not be Straw man. You just seem to amaze me comment after comment, it's actually hilarious Lol.

You're not arguing with the Plazma League though, are you? Respond to the arguments I make and it won't be a straw man

You just seem to amaze me comment after comment, it's actually hilarious lol

jdc55 wrote:Lol! It's funny how your mentioning all this now, when you could've mentioned it when you decided to say "I ran 7 Halo tournaments". Not calling you a liar, but it seems a bit fishy.

Like I said, I'm a very humble person despite being on an ascended level. I don't need to brag about my track record which ironically happens to be better than yours. 90% of those entries don't have anything to do with the subject so why would I ever bring it up at the start? I only brought it up because I felt like bragging about it. Like I said, I have quadruple the things you have worth bragging about. Nothing wrong with proving my claim there.

You seem to be bothered by the fact someone is more well versed in competitive leagues that you want to be skeptical about it. It's alright to admit the fact that I'm more experienced than you. After all, the track record doesn't lie. It even says a lot more than you think, actually.

jdc55 wrote:Those 9, aren't 3v3 Competitive Leagues, because if they were, you would have already mentioned that, and you wouldn't be so clueless to how PB2 3v3 Competitive works.

I didn't know you were at all nine of my competitions to know what they were. That's wonderful to hear that you took part in all nine 3v3 tournaments. Were you in the 3v3s in the other games too?

jdc55 wrote:All these tournaments come out of nowhere, with no mention of them anywhere, then you use "I didn't wanna make you cry" as an excuse to finally say them. Super fishy..

You randomly said I have no experience; now when I suddenly mention it at random, it's "fishy" to you. Someone's in clear and sheer denial. It's no excuse if it's slowly becoming more apparent.

If there's nothing wrong with randomly trying to discredit me then it's perfectly fine to bring up a portion of my track record randomly. All's fair in love and war, friend.

Oh, and they didn't come out of nowhere. They came out of my methodology on how to run a tournament. I keep it close by in case I need it. Sometimes it's in physical form like on a notepad or something, but it occupies a position within space-time.

jdc55 wrote:Lol No. They're short because you can't come up with a feasible argument. Most of everything you've been saying has just been you accusing me of "Straw man". Won't you add some def in your responses, because everything you reply makes me scratch my head in confusion. I feel like Nick Young and that meme every time I read something from you. Confused, yet amused.

I'd love to hear how my arguments were unfeasible. Go ahead and enlighten me. I'll use that knowledge to make the world better afterwards.

jdc55 wrote:And don't say "I said nothing about Best of X".

I said nothing about "best of X." There, I said it. What are you going to do now?

jdc55 wrote:You think Randomizing Map types in a "Best of X" system is more consistent than just shuffling and organizing the Map types fairly.

Inconsistency is already a part of randomization so what you're claiming isn't even close but okay lol

jdc55 wrote:The only way my argument is Straw man is if I pulled "Best of X" out my anus and it doesn't involve your argument, When clearly it does.

Man, you were so close in getting the right answer and then you blew it. Better luck next time lol

jdc55 wrote:So that right there shows you aren't even close to being qualified in putting your 2 cents in Plazma League. I'm going to actually give you another chance to counter my system again, and see if you can actually stay on topic, instead calling every argument "Straw man".

My 2 cents has afforded to keep your mouth running about this argument so I'd say it was well spent.

I still haven't called every argument you made a straw man but whatever floats your boat in your delusional world lol

jdc55 wrote:And before you say I added the Randomization within the map types, you're wrong.

That's the fifth straw man out of like 8 arguments. Ouch.

It's hard not to call you out when you make these things so obvious and in my face lol
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby jdc55 » 17 January 2019, 18:08

Hikarikaze wrote:So how exactly isn't it a straw man? lol

Because I'm telling you how your randomization works worse with inevitable system.. Easy answer. What I've been saying for the last 9 posts, but apparently you don't read Lol.

Hikarikaze wrote:You're not arguing with the Plazma League though, are you? Respond to the arguments I make and it won't be a straw man

Lol! I just did. Okay now you're just trolling at this point. :) It's actually sad.. For you.

Hikarikaze wrote:Were you in the 3v3s in the other games too?

Sorry to break it to you, but 3v3's in other games aren't even close to being similar to PB2 3v3. Therefore those are invalid. Lol

Hikarikaze wrote:You randomly said I have no experience; now when I suddenly mention it at random, it's "fishy" to you

If I told you I ran 10 Fortnite tournaments last year this late in an argument, would it not be fishy? Use your common sense. You use bigger terms in your replies to sound smart yet you can't use common sense. :sorry:

Hikarikaze wrote:Oh, and they didn't come out of nowhere. They came out of my methodology on how to run a tournament.

Apparently not, since you didn't even bother to argue my claim once more. You lost and you know it.

Hikarikaze wrote:I'd love to hear how my arguments were unfeasible.

They're unfeasible because I already explained to you why it's the worse system and you have yet to argue against it. Lol

Hikarikaze wrote:I said nothing about "best of X." There, I said it. What are you going to do now?

I'm going to laugh my butt off, that's why I'm going to do LOL.

Hikarikaze wrote:Inconsistency is already a part of randomization

Difference is, Map types, or the basic way the format plays out, shouldn't be inconsistent. It should be Consistent, so it basically stays the same game every time. You don't see the Cod World League randomizing their Game modes every Best of 5. Why? Because it's way too inconsistent while the maps within the modes are Randomized also.

Hikarikaze wrote:Man, you were so close in getting the right answer and then you blew it. Better luck next time lol

Lol? Is this seriously your reply? Now your just giving up on me. Sad

Hikarikaze wrote:That's the fifth straw man out of like 8 arguments.

No, It's not straw man. I'm just filling in my own plot holes before they're used against me. Think of it as an 8 Mile thing. Rabbit made fun of himself before the opponent had a chance to. It's just an argument tactic is all. And a time saver of course.

I also see you didn't bother to argue against my system again. Can we stay on topic? Because it seems you'd rather goof off on other topics.

Honestly, I just see this as a sign you can't argue much anymore. I love speaking on these types of topics and giving my 2 cents. So we can go at it for as long as you need. :) Just don't expect me to reply right away. Anyway, here goes my proposed system again. Let's see if you don't disappoint this time.


MATCH (MT= Map Type)
Game 1: Specific MT 1

Game 2: Specific MT 2

Game 3: Specific MT 3

Game 4: Specific MT 4

Game 5: Specific MT 5

Map types will be shuffled throughout every week to give everyone equal playing time in the regular season. Therefore it stays consistent and no one has to miss any matches. This system involves all Core 5 Map types, and the maps within the Map types themselves, will be randomized, forcing players to come out their comfort zones you desperately want.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby Wasted Time » 17 January 2019, 18:12

@Hikarikaze and @JDC55, At the beginning of your two's argument it was expanding on the topic and you were both bouncing off different possibilities and ideas to each other, but now it has devolved more into an argument and who can spot the most logical fallacies...

I would just like to remind you two to keep this discussion based on the topic and not about the both of your ego's, I understand that you both believe the other to be wrong but you can discuss that more in PM's if you would like, or you could both please lay off of the more toxic part and steer more into the discussion at hand.

No action will be taken as of now, please try to be respectful to each other and I am just trying to remind you both of the actual topics at hand.

If you need a reminder about the Code of Conduct it will be linked here; viewtopic.php?f=150&t=21471
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby jdc55 » 17 January 2019, 18:20

Wasted Time wrote:@Hikarikaze and @JDC55, At the beginning of your two's argument it was expanding on the topic and you were both bouncing off different possibilities and ideas to each other, but now it has devolved more into an argument and who can spot the most logical fallacies...

I would just like to remind you two to keep this discussion based on the topic and not about the both of your ego's, I understand that you both believe the other to be wrong but you can discuss that more in PM's if you would like, or you could both please lay off of the more toxic part and steer more into the discussion at hand.

No action will be taken as of now, please try to be respectful to each other and I am just trying to remind you both of the actual topics at hand.

If you need a reminder about the Code of Conduct it will be linked here; viewtopic.php?f=150&t=21471


Almost every reply to her has been me explaining my system, and how it's the better one. She hasn't yet to argue back it and calls everything "a Straw man". I'm staying on topic. You can even see my last post. You don't have to worry about me.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby Wasted Time » 17 January 2019, 19:23

@JDC55, It was just meant as a general reminder, I am not here to say who is right and who is wrong. This not only applies to the both of you but anyone on the forums.

Each post on here should not deviate from the topic at hand unless it expands upon it and still reaches within the boundaries of it.

Topics should remain respectful and promote discussion rather than trying to shut each other down because you believe the other is wrong, if you disagree with the other person and want to pull in other information or ideas that you feel as if it would not fit in the current topic or you want to be brash about how you go about things you have other options, such as carrying the conversation over to your PM's or creating your own topic and discussing that.

A good reminder about this would be DoomWrath's topic here; viewtopic.php?f=150&t=17609

It would also be nice to hear other ideas not regarding Plazma League as well. As a reminder this topic is not just for the discussion of a better Plazma League, it is for any idea that you think could benefit your experience in the game. Just remember to keep it your discussions respectful.

**Note; if you do decide to make a topic that you are going to be brasher about idea's and being harsher on your points and references please make an easily visible warning on the starting post to warn users what they would be getting into. This does not nullify you from the rules so please keep in mind that the CoC still applies.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby jdc55 » 17 January 2019, 19:29

Wasted Time wrote:@JDC55, It was just meant as a general reminder, I am not here to say who is right and who is wrong. This not only applies to the both of you but anyone on the forums.

Each post on here should not deviate from the topic at hand unless it expands upon it and still reaches within the boundaries of it.

Topics should remain respectful and promote discussion rather than trying to shut each other down because you believe the other is wrong, if you disagree with the other person and you feel as if it would not fit in the current topic you have other options, such as carrying the conversation over to your PM's or creating your own topic and discussing that.

A good reminder about this would be DoomWrath's topic here; viewtopic.php?f=150&t=17609

It would also be nice to hear other ideas not regarding Plazma League as well. As a reminder this topic is not just for the discussion of a better Plazma League, it is for any idea that you think could benefit your experience in the game. Just remember to keep it your discussions respectful.


Gotcha! Respect for jumping in. The discussion was taken to a complete turn. Hope this sorts it out.

My proposal still stands as is though.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby Hikarikaze » 17 January 2019, 22:42

Wasted Time wrote:At the beginning of your two's argument it was expanding on the topic and you were both bouncing off different possibilities and ideas to each other, but now it has devolved more into an argument and who can spot the most logical fallacies...

Identifying logical fallacies is important to prevent deviation of a discussion. If jdc doesn't understand what they are and keeps misusing their applications, then it's not my problem nor am I to blame if he throws the discussion off course. I only responded to what I'm reading as usual in my own usual manner. Otherwise, this has always been a conventional argument from start to finish and it's one I'll see to its end.

jdc55 wrote:Because I'm telling you how your randomization works worse with inevitable system.. Easy answer. What I've been saying for the last 9 posts, but apparently you don't read Lol.

And what I've been saying for the last 9 posts is that you're attacking points I never made which make those straw man arguments.

jdc55 wrote:Lol! I just did. Okay now you're just trolling at this point. It's actually sad.. For you.

You responded to more arguments that I didn't make compared to arguments I did make. I'd rather you respond to the points I made myself like I did, responding to the points you made.

jdc55 wrote:Sorry to break it to you, but 3v3's in other games aren't even close to being similar to PB2 3v3. Therefore those are invalid. Lol

That sounds so unfathomably stupid that reading it again doesn't make it sound like it makes any type of sense.

jdc55 wrote:If I told you I ran 10 Fortnite tournaments last year this late in an argument, would it not be fishy? Use your common sense. You use bigger terms in your replies to sound smart yet you can't use common sense.

I wouldn't care personally, since I don't even care about you running six events. Like I said, I only mentioned it because I simply wanted to. Otherwise, I think that point is stupid entirely. I even wrote on that post right by my list that it's stupid. Take a look back there.

If you find that doubtful, then it's not my problem.

jdc55 wrote:Apparently not, since you didn't even bother to argue my claim once more. You lost and you know it.

You keep arguing as if you know exactly what happened when this is the first time you even heard about it. I've argued your claim plenty of times and you weakly responded by adding more fallacies with each successive post.

jdc55 wrote:Difference is, Map types, or the basic way the format plays out, shouldn't be inconsistent. It should be Consistent, so it basically stays the same game every time. You don't see the Cod World League randomizing their Game modes every Best of 5. Why? Because it's way too inconsistent while the maps within the modes are Randomized also.

CWL doesn't even play on five game modes; they play on three this year so "best of 5" isn't even applicable, and the modes are pre-determined, i.e manually chosen.

Also, CWL isn't a very good example considering you can play any mode on a single map while PB2 doesn't give that opportunity unless the map in question was simply designed that way.

jdc55 wrote:I'm just filling in my own plot holes before they're used against me.

Those end up becoming straw man arguments which make your claim even less valid.

jdc55 wrote:Think of it as an 8 Mile thing. Rabbit made fun of himself before the opponent had a chance to. It's just an argument tactic is all. And a time saver of course.

In 8 Mile, they were battle rapping, not arguing. The point is to come up with the most vicious disses they can improvise with, not to prove a position valid or right. The only reason he does that is so his opponent can't come up with anything new and therefore lose, not to fill in holes of an argument neither of them are having.

Not a good example to use considering the scenario and application aren't the same.

Also, screenshotting random parts of my posts and sharing it with others on Discord like you've been doing lately won't do you anything but make you look silly to those people. Are you that desperate for validation?
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby jdc55 » 17 January 2019, 23:51

Hikarikaze wrote:And what I've been saying for the last 9 posts is that you're attacking points I never made which make those straw man arguments.

*Facepalm* How many times I gotta say this. It's not straw man because I'm directing it towards your proposal. Which is Randomization, and why it doesn't work with the inevitable Plazma League system. Please explain to me how that's Straw man.

Hikarikaze wrote:That sounds so unfathomably stupid that reading it again doesn't make it sound like it makes any type of sense.

What even is this reply. There's literally no tpye of elaboration on what exactly your talking about. Everything you say has no substance, making it harder for me to get you to realize my point. Lol


Hikarikaze wrote:You keep arguing as if you know exactly what happened when this is the first time you even heard about it. I've argued your claim plenty of times and you weakly responded by adding more fallacies with each successive post.

What fallacies? Everything I've responded to you has been completely valid, yet you choose to be in denial and only reply "Straw man", instead of going into detail about how your proposal is better than mine.

You haven't even mentioned your own proposal since your last, I'd say 10 posts. Which shows by itself you have nothing to argue.

Hikarikaze wrote:CWL doesn't even play on five game modes; they play on three this year so "best of 5" isn't even applicable, and the modes are pre-determined, i.e manually chosen.

LOL HA! This made me almost spit my water out. Yes CWL only has 3 game modes, but they still play on Best of 5. Consistency is literally one of the key reasons why Modes are predetermined in the CWL. Back in Bo3 there was 4 Game modes, yet games we're still Predetermined. CWL has always followed a simple base format to keep consistency to the game. They never Randomized Game modes, or in our case (Map types). They only randomized maps, and stuck to a simple format instead of randomizing everything in sight.

Hikarikaze wrote:Not a good example to use considering the scenario and application aren't the same.

The principles are the same though. Rabbit says specific things to keep the opponent from using it against him. Literally the same thing I did. It's honestly not a hard concept to grasp and I think you know that.

Hikarikaze wrote:Also, screenshotting random parts of my posts and sharing it with others on Discord like you've been doing lately won't do you anything but make you look silly to those people. Are you that desperate for validation?

Hey don't look at me, one of your friends said you were murdering me even though you haven't argued against my proposal or even argued your own proposal in your last 10 post. Just verbally defending myself is all.

Oh and just to stay on topic. Just going to leave something below. Something you haven't argued against yet.
MATCH (MT= Map Type)
Game 1: Specific MT 1

Game 2: Specific MT 2

Game 3: Specific MT 3

Game 4: Specific MT 4

Game 5: Specific MT 5

Map types will be shuffled throughout every week to give everyone equal playing time in the regular season. Therefore it stays consistent and no one has to miss any matches. This system involves all Core 5 Map types, and the maps within the Map types themselves, will be randomized, forcing players to come out their comfort zones you so desperately want.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby Hikarikaze » 18 January 2019, 01:30

jdc55 wrote:*Facepalm* How many times I gotta say this. It's not straw man because I'm directing it towards your proposal. Which is Randomization, and why it doesn't work with the inevitable Plazma League system. Please explain to me how that's Straw man.

I explained it to you already so I don't have to repeat it again for the thousandth time.

jdc55 wrote:What even is this reply. There's literally no tpye of elaboration on what exactly your talking about. Everything you say has no substance, making it harder for me to get you to realize my point. Lol

There's no elaboration or substance in what you said either lol

You sound like you're getting frustrated and upset now. You should probably just move on and accept you can't defend your claim properly

jdc55 wrote:What fallacies?

In order:

1.) Courtier's reply - you tried to dismiss my claim first by claiming I have no experience to speak on the subject matter.
2.) Appeal to accomplishment - you tried to argue using your "6 successful events," and acted like you were more correct than I was just from that alone.
3.) Straw man argument - a majority of your arguments were responses to points I never advanced forward
4.) Proof by assertion - you keep arguing the same exact point non-stop despite me countering them (best of X, bringing up your system)
5.) Argumentum ad nauseam - despite my counterarguments, you still stick to the same arguments anyways
6.) False authority - you claim yourself that your system is right without anyone else supporting your claim and then you use your own opinion to assert that you're correct as if it were a fact
7.) Argumentum ad populum - you think there's nothing wrong with your system because it's widely accepted and not complained about.
8.) False equivalence - first you argue by equating map types with game types, then equating map types to different rule allowances, before comparing examples like CSGO to PB2 despite the vast differences between the two as if they were more similar than different
9.) False analogy - again, comparing CSGO to PB2 and then comparing my proposal to "basketball except for the first 5 games, dribbling isn't necessary."
10.) Appeal to motive - you immediately call me a troll randomly when I'm simply attempting to advance the discussion.
11.) Moving the goalposts - when I clarified that I had 3v3 tournaments, you immediately dismissed those counterexamples on the ground that since "it's not the same as a 3v3 in PB2, they're invalid," when you never narrowed the parameters of this argument down in the first place to disallow that counterexample before I could use it.
12.) Argument from incredulity - you can't seem to fathom the fact that it's possible that I know more than you, so you try to dismiss the counterarguments I present, e.g the 9 3v3 tournaments I had, which would imply I have more experience than you.

And about 11, you said all of my tournaments were invalid, which included the 9 3v3s in PB2 I clarified. So if PB2 competitions are invalid like you say, then your track record is also invalid by your logic.

jdc55 wrote:You haven't even mentioned your own proposal since your last, I'd say 10 posts. Which shows by itself you have nothing to argue.

I mentioned my proposal. My proposal is what you've been arguing against this whole time, and if it isn't, then what were you arguing against if not my proposal?

jdc55 wrote:LOL HA! This made me almost spit my water out. Yes CWL only has 3 game modes, but they still play on Best of 5. Consistency is literally one of the key reasons why Modes are predetermined in the CWL. Back in Bo3 there was 4 Game modes, yet games we're still Predetermined. CWL has always followed a simple base format to keep consistency to the game. They never Randomized Game modes, or in our case (Map types). They only randomized maps, and stuck to a simple format instead of randomizing everything in sight.

This sounds oddly similar to how CWL works, almost as if the league you're defending is a ripoff and unoriginal like I said plenty of posts ago.

Also, now you're just jumping to conclusions and misinterpreting my proposal. Never did I suggest to randomize everything in sight.

jdc55 wrote:The principles are the same though. Rabbit says specific things to keep the opponent from using it against him. Literally the same thing I did. It's honestly not a hard concept to grasp and I think you know that.

No it's not. In 8 Mile, the point was to insult the opponent as badly as possible to win. We're not having a contest to see who has the best insults here. In that case, he does it to win by stopping his opponent from using anything, not to prove something right.

In this case, doing that same tactic is fallacious because it literally leads to a straw man argument. You don't "win" in a logical argument by doing this tactic; you end up losing validity. So again, it's a different scenario with different applications.

jdc55 wrote:Hey don't look at me, one of your friends said you were murdering me even though you haven't argued against my proposal or even argued your own proposal in your last 10 post. Just verbally defending myself is all.

It's true though. However, you should take it up with them, not me.

Defending yourself? In what way is this defending yourself? You're just trying to seek validation by sneakily insulting me there and expecting people in the room to agree with you when in reality, nobody cares about what you're saying.
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Re: Plazma Burst 2 and 3

Postby Wasted Time » 18 January 2019, 05:42

@Hikarikaze and @JDC55, you too have rambled on about this too much with not actual development on the situation, you both just continuously keep arguing for your own opinions, and won't branch upon the other's view and it is getting you both nowhere...

I recommend the both of you continue this argument in PM's unless you can both develop something more with this argument in the current topic. I appreciate the both of you trying to spark something but it just is not seeming to happen.

And if the both of you have issues outside of the forums and on the official Discord then keep it on the Discord, do not bring the drama into the topic, it will only lead to more issues ahead.

---
@Hikarikaze

Hikarikaze wrote:...then it's not my problem nor am I to blame if he throws the discussion off course...


It becomes your problem and is to blame when you acknowledge it and continue to keep the discussion off course. If you saw that it was going that way then you should have reported it, or merely ignored it and kept the discussion about the topic.

Hikarikaze wrote:...Otherwise, this has always been a conventional argument from start to finish and it's one I'll see to its end.


If you do want to finish the rest of this argument then bring it into your PMs with him and discuss it, if he does not wish to do that then do not discuss it any further.

---
@JDC55

Please keep the conversation at hand related to the topic. I appreciate you trying to use outside sources and examples, but when it gets to the point where it doesn't involve Plazmaburst or the topic then it becomes an issue.

---
Honestly, I expected better from both of you during this whole situation, while I was not here or able to guide the topic earlier from devolving into this, I still thought the both of you would hold some decency and be able to know that this should not go on like this... You are both fairly old members of this community and you should both know how things run around here by now.

After the initial notice, I believed you both would settle down and I gave you both the benefit of the doubt, although I was advised not to... and sadly I was wrong in doing so. This topic will not be locked because it would be unfair for those who would like to participate in it still, but as for the both of you, please find something else to discuss and keep it from turning into what it currently is or discuss it in your PMs, I will not ask again.

Plazmaburst 2 CoC: viewtopic.php?f=150&t=21471
Plazmaburst 2 Post Quality: viewtopic.php?f=150&t=17609
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