My feedback on PB2.5's development.

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My feedback on PB2.5's development.

Postby tehswordninja » 23 February 2017, 17:26

I've finally decided to give my thoughts on how PB2.5 is being developed.

And I have to say, I don't really care for it (please don't take this like I'm hating, I really just want Eric's methods to improve so we can see PB2.5 here sooner and better).


To begin, there's no clear layout or roadmap for Eric; he just works on whatever he wants to. That might work for say a larger group of people, who can finish a game quicker, but with just one person, I just can't see that working. He needs to prioritize what he wants finished for the release and what he wants finished after, as the PB2 community likely won't wait another year. It's been, what, 6 years? A bit over half a decade right now. PB2.5 should have been in the works 2-3 years ago, and yet now its been in the works for 2 years, and only some bits of various functions are done, instead of some things being completely finished?

Also, not to mention the fact that Eric continues to say the game is 16% done, even with all the progress he's made. Yes, I understand, he might not be able to really get a good idea of how finished he is or what he'd considering 100%.

But, that doesn't mean he couldn't just say "I don't know" or give a better rough estimate.

Two years of work somehow translates into 16%? At this rate, it'll take about 12 years for PB2.5 to be finished if apparently only 16% of the game is done (actually did math on that one).


Secondly, hype. Eric built up the hype far too early imo (I will admit, he kinda had to, but he could have done it better imo) for a game that will take years to complete. I've just gotten bored at this point. There's a lot less "Yay PB2.5 is coming" and more "Are we going to have to wait another year?" At least for me, anyways.

He also hasn't shown us much new stuff overall, so we have don't have much of an idea of how actually complete he is with the game. He seems to be borderline obsessed with 'spoilers.' Look, showing us one new gun or a grenade type isn't going to spoil the game for us. It'll just build up hype. Hell, he could even just make a quick 10 second video of a gun being shot off screen, or the reload mechanic in action, etc.


Thirdly, Eric wants to receive little to no profit from PB2.5, which makes absolutely no sense to me. They are plenty, plenty of people willing to donate money, never mind pay money for some 'premium' content.


That's all I have for now, I'm surely forgetting something. Do you guys have any feedback yourself? Any issues with my points?
who needs a PB2.5 release date, anyways?
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Re: My feedback on PB2.5's development.

Postby Hikarikaze » 24 February 2017, 00:13

Here's another one of my long posts so if you don't want to read the whole thing, don't

There's no guarantee that the game is truly at 16%. Eric may be saying this to deter anyone else asking about the game progress or he may be saying this to try to keep people as hyped as they patiently can

PB2.5 shouldn't have been out 2-3 years ago because there weren't as many problems afflicting the game as there is now. PB2.5 is meant to solve those problems that have grown over the years; there's no point in releasing or making it in the past if the purpose behind it never existed to begin with in that timeframe. Keep in mind that this game isn't simply PB2's original coding with minor modifications. It's the whole game rewritten which can take time. There's a lot of game design elements that might still need refinement or might not be adequate enough. As someone whose hobbies are in some artistic fields, I can understand the importance of getting minute details right. After all, we're the ones that's going to be criticizing even the most smallest of details as even those can make or break an entire game for some (and yes, critics like this do exist)

Eric's far too reserved regarding the game. You can't say that he's not organized or that he is because there's no way to affirm that. From what I gathered, he seems to know what's he doing and he seems to have his priorities set for now. Implications aren't a very good reason for criticism in this regard. I can think of a few reasons as to why he wouldn't want to show any new content added:

1.) He may want to surprise us all. If he surprises us with something we've never seen before, it'll make the wait worthwhile. If he shows us a gun and it happens to be rather generic or an overused idea, not a lot of people will retain interest in the game. There's far too many elements in the series and the game that already share very close similarities with other things in other games. Add on to this seemingly increasing amount of "unoriginal" concepts and you may find yourself moving away from the game, calling it more of a ripoff of other games than the truly unique game it's advertised to be. Why go for a ripoff when you can always move to the original?

2.) Conflict prevention is another reason. He mentioned adding community made weapons and whatnot. Chances are somebody's going to be heavily upset because someone else's creations got added instead of theirs. Regardless of the intent of making art for the game, every fan artist has the hidden desire to see their own creations in the game because it simply would be "cool" to imagine.

Also back to what I said about unveiling a weapon that may seem generic. If it happens to share some similarities with a weapon from another video game, some critics may take it as ripping off, copying, or just straight off being unoriginal. The game will begin to be called unoriginal, too similar to its other competitors, etc, which will hurt the game's image. A hurt image will influence the views of other people and so, even those people will move away from the game

3.) Content may be complete but it might not be perfect enough. This is important when it comes to creating media based projects or any sort of art. Minor details can end up painting the whole picture. It might sound like some serious OCD issues but it does happen in all creative and artistic fields. Some creators and developers may feel that content may require a little less or a little more and so, they'll spend a bit more time trying to perfect it as best as they can. All creators and creations alike go through this process

tehswordninja wrote:Thirdly, Eric wants to receive little to no profit from PB2.5, which makes absolutely no sense to me. They are plenty, plenty of people willing to donate money, never mind pay money for some 'premium' content.

It makes sense to me. He wants to treat this as more of a hobby than a job which is totally understandable. You should've expected this based on the fact that PB2 itself doesn't have a donation button at all and Eric didn't launch a fundraising campaign for his own game. For ~6 years, this game has existed with Eric not once asking to support the game in ways outside of simply playing it and going to the website. Why is this such a new thing that's so suddenly shocking now?
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Re: My feedback on PB2.5's development.

Postby stormforce » 7 March 2017, 03:01

My thoughts:

The game is most likely not 16% done, that is what was said September 2015.

1. Eric has been working on the game a lot over the past two years, he has his own life too, and in his free time he can enjoy something else. It is not right for us to push him, or to keep asking "When will the game come out", because it will just annoy him more.

2. The game is being remade and rewritten, that does take a long time, considering he is the only programmer programming Pb2.5. Eric is probably having some difficulty implementing new things, as he probably did not do a "Skin Editor" for any project before. Programming a game is difficult already as it is, and pushing him to show a weapon or something to hype us up would make the situation worse, as more hype means more impatience, and if he does not want to reveal it, that is okay. He probably wants to surprise us with a well developed game. Battlefield 3 took 3 years to make, and even though I do not have the game, other people say it was worth the wait. Eric is trying to develop a game by himself, and he does not even get any money for it. I would STRONGLY DISAPPROVE of "Premium Content" in Pb2.5, because it would create a "free to play" and "pay to play" game just like Team Fortress 2. People who buy the Premium content will brag and believe they are better simply because they bought something, spent money, or have a advantage. All we really need is a donation box, to show our support for Eric. Eric has been with us for many years, and the fact that he is working hard on a new game Pb2.5 shows his dedication to the game. However, one's dedication may fade over time if the community keeps annoying him or asking too much of him. He is only one man and he has his own life too.

These are just my thoughts on the matter. This makes sense to me; Eric is implementing a lot of difficult features, rewriting the whole game, and he has his own live and enjoyable activities too. Pushing him too far will obviously antagonize him. As you can see, he is taking a break from programming Pb2.5 for a few weeks on his Twitter. This is likely that he wants to do something else for a while, or he has some event or family vacation, that is fine. He has worked hard for a community that is falling apart. Players who say they cannot take this game anymore and leave for a few years, then come back expecting to see players welcoming them into Pb2.5 without thinking of how much Eric Gurt did for us, is not to be tolerated. Eric, we support you a lot, and we love the fact you dedicate some of your time to Pb2.5. Keep up the good work!
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