An fix to a exploit that should be added to PB2.5.

Give us your feedback about PB2.5! Or have an idea? Post it here!

Would you like all this to be fixed?

Yes!
15
36%
Yes!
15
36%
No. (Explain why.)
6
14%
No. (Explain why.)
6
14%
 
Total votes : 42

An fix to a exploit that should be added to PB2.5.

Postby maxim12 » 22 October 2015, 16:29

Here is my idea for PB2.5 that should be added.

Make an animation between weapon switching, so weapon switching wont be abused so much, like combining weapons together where you switch weapons quickly and keep firing.

It's to fix that weird weapon combo where you quickly switch between 2 guns with quick scroll and holding fire at the same time, I'm sure you get what i mean.

Not only that, But also when you for example carry BNG, and stepping on another BNG, You fire, Quickly throw and pick up the second BNG and fire again, basicaly pick another BNG instead of waiting for the BNG to reload. This weird exploit mainly found in slow-mo maps like nyove-rockets, in that map rocket lauchers reload slow due to slow-mo.

So to be clarify, make a delay between firing when you switch weapons and add an "Weapon switching", "Weapon throwing" and "picking-up a weapon" animations to Characters/Skins/Players. It's simply weird when you switch weapon, one gun dissapears from your hands and appears in your back but another gun dissapears from your back and appears in your hands. Same when picking, your leg touches the gun, poof it appears in your hands, instead of showing that you are actualy picking up a gun, same can be said when you switch weapons.


EDIT:
Oh another thing i want to be fixed: In singleplayer with swords, You activae slow-mo and start rapidly clicking on the mouse and so start very rapidly slicing with your swords, which again, makes the game way too easy and ruining the challenge and the actual fun that you want to have.

Lets say you we're in a map with very powerfull enenmy with lots of HP's, say 1500, It's a well hard though work to kill those by just using your original weapons and your swords without the rapid slice exploit, but if you figure out about the exploit of rapid slicing you will kill those guys very easy without challenge. For me It's just destroying singleplayer.

EDIT2:
Added poll.
Last edited by maxim12 on 24 October 2015, 07:51, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Idea for PB2.5.

Postby assasinguy » 22 October 2015, 18:09

This is pretty much how I passed the campaign, but I still agree with you completely. I hate it when someone drops and replaces their sniper rifle for a double shot or quickly scrolls between 3 heavy weapons for a triple shot.
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Re: Idea for PB2.5.

Postby Kiriakos Gr96 » 22 October 2015, 18:43

very good idea
+1
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Re: Idea for PB2.5.

Postby NNC » 22 October 2015, 19:17

This is actually one of few things I do like in PB2, and I'm not sure about why would someone want to take it off.
It's not like there's always a corresponding gun lyng on the ground, and it's not always ready to fire.
Plus using another gun which is ready to fire instead of waiting for reload is called "logic", not "weird exploit". After all, that's the point of carrying multiple weapons at once.

KLMJETWORK wrote:imagine a guy with a Plasmagun CS-Bloom and a CS-BNG quickly swapping and firing
Isn't it just a tactic? Just because someone can't use a tactic, doesn't mean it should be removed.
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Re: Idea for PB2.5.

Postby maxim12 » 22 October 2015, 19:36

Plus using another gun which is ready to fire instead of waiting for reload is called "logic", not "weird exploit".


What? How it was logical? It's not natural, tell me how a human in real life able to switch guns very very fast and aim them very fast? For Human It's pretty heavy to carry a normal assault rifle for example, and now imagine the actual weight and mass that the heavy weaponary such as rocket launcher has, oh and BNG which is high tech weapon that we have no idea what height it has, probly heavier than rocket laucher.

I call this exploit, cause human in real life cant do that. i know It's stupid comparing real life with game, but still, just because It's a game does not mean It should not have naturality. It's just not natural, which is why i say It's weird exploit and It's just weird, period.

Isn't it just a tactic? Just because someone can't use a tactic, doesn't mean it should be removed.


Yes i know how to do that, and i can do that just like you. But please, read what i said above.


Note: i know It's game based on far future and should not relie on "Realism", I.e Sci-fi themed game with high tech stuff, but dont forget that there should be still be some naturality, just because It's sci-fi themed game does not mean It should not have naturality. Naturality and Realism are different things.

After all, that's the point of carrying multiple weapons at once.


To have a variety of weapons for the needed situation?

In very close combat, who will win, the guy with shotgun or assault rifle? ofcourse shotgun, cause shotgun is desinged for close range combat in this game, rifle is more for medium ranges. get the logic?
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Re: Idea for PB2.5.

Postby Silent Aurora » 22 October 2015, 19:46

Would be nice to have some animation but I got used to it and created some good combos for arena :l
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Re: Idea for PB2.5.

Postby maxim12 » 22 October 2015, 19:53

assasinguy wrote:This is pretty much how I passed the campaign, but I still agree with you completely. I hate it when someone drops and replaces their sniper rifle for a double shot or quickly scrolls between 3 heavy weapons for a triple shot.



Pretty much this, agree with that.

Activate slow-mo, then shoot BNG then Rocket then Shotgun and then start shooting with the assault rifle, It helped in most situations and it simply ruins the challenge of single player maps, which is why carrying many weapons makes the gameplay way too easy.
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Re: Idea for PB2.5.

Postby Silent Aurora » 22 October 2015, 21:41

KLMJETWORK wrote:
WTF-8 or whatever NNC that's it! wrote:Isn't it just a tactic? Just because someone can't use a tactic, doesn't mean it should be removed.

This whole post states why it should be removed so shut up already.


Be respectful to other users.
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Re: An fix to a exploit that should be added to PB2.5.

Postby NNC » 22 October 2015, 22:25

maxim12 wrote:What? How it was logical? It's not natural
How is it not natural? What'd you do when your rifle would run out of ammo? I'd switch to a back-up weapon or run away, depending on the situation.

maxim12 wrote:how a human in real life able to switch guns very very fast and aim them very fast?
In real life, people don't selfboost. In real life, people have no hitpoints. In real life, aliens' existence is not confirmed, or at least it wasn't when i checked this for the last time.

Well-trained soldiers can actually aim pretty fast, though this depends on what do you consider fast. Plus those battlesuits can probably help them with aiming.

maxim12 wrote:For Human It's pretty heavy to carry a normal assault rifle for example, and now imagine the actual weight and mass that the heavy weaponary such as rocket launcher has
See above. Exoskeleton can provide extra stamina, this shouldn't be too hard to understand. Now look at Marine's Heavy Battlesuit.

maxim12 wrote:In very close combat, who will win, the guy with shotgun or assault rifle? ofcourse shotgun, cause shotgun is desinged for close range combat in this game, rifle is more for medium ranges. get the logic?
No. Plus I don't understand what are you talking about (the game or the real world). Though in both cases it's common to kill well-armed enemies via something not designed for combat.



KLMJETWORK wrote:This whole post states why it should be removed
It doesn't, that's the problem.
How many times have we seen newbies complaining about selfboost being OP?.. And, not trying to insult you or something, but your post sounds exactly same - "i cant use it please remove it".
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Now, before KLM and NNC go at each other like rabid animals.

Postby mancrew5 » 23 October 2015, 01:38

Although I see many fine points in all of these, I have come to the conclusion that maybe it should be kept, and yet at the same time replaced.


What I mean is, is that there should be an engine mark for this. Some maps partially rely on a quick-switch to become do-able, and others don't need it at all. There should just be an engine mark that enables/disables the animation, if it ever becomes a thing.





As for how the animation would look, I'm imagining something like an over-the-shoulder swap for most weapons, and a quick holstering for others.



Now that I mention it, that would make pistols much more useful if automatic weapons aren't around in a map...





Oh yeah, I almost forgot.



+1
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Re: An fix to a exploit that should be added to PB2.5.

Postby Krutz » 23 October 2015, 05:23

multi-projjing/barraging has become a common stratagem used to maximize dps output in accordance to your equipped arsenal

although i most certainly execute it when necessary, it does seem a bit dirty to me and i doubt eric gurt predicted players to abuse instant weapon swapping like such

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Re: An fix to a exploit that should be added to PB2.5.

Postby maxim12 » 23 October 2015, 15:11

NNC wrote:How is it not natural? What'd you do when your rifle would run out of ammo? I'd switch to a back-up weapon or run away, depending on the situation.

Yes, i may switch to another gun, but how you can switch to another gun instantly? POOF the gun dissapears from your hands and appears another gun, tell me, how you able to do that in real life? You cant switch guns and fire at the enemy at the SAME time. Second, since when PB2 has the option to reload guns anyway?

NNC wrote:No. Plus I don't understand what are you talking about (the game or the real world). Though in both cases it's common to kill well-armed enemies via something not designed for combat.

What i talk about is that each gun has It's own weakness and strong points. Shotgun can deal very punchy damage when you shoot the enemy from close distance, which can pretty much out DPS the assault rifle at close range. While at medium and long range shotgun sucks because of terrible accuracy. While assault rilfe is less punchy but It's more accuracte so It's more effective at medium ranges. where the sniper rifle is only good at long ranges, in medium or close range It's absolutly powerless against assault rifle or shotgun.

That is the POINT of carrying multiple weapons, so you have plenty of weapons for the needed situation, close combat? shotgun. Long range? sniper. Fighting enemyies in medium-close comabt? Assault rifle for the work.

NNC wrote:It doesn't, that's the problem.
How many times have we seen newbies complaining about selfboost being OP?.. And, not trying to insult you or something, but your post sounds exactly same - "i cant use it please remove it".


Never seen anyone complaining about it. Lets take simply that Selfboost is when the exosuit power your streight so you able to jump very high. The reason why i dont complain about it because It doesent look so weird like the rapid weapon switching and firing at the same time, Selfboosting simply looks natural and can happen, like because suits powering them, but that? It's just looks so weird.

And no, i dont complain about it because "I cant use it", i know how to use it, It's very simple. but the point is, It ruins the challenge in singleplayer, you combo weapons in slow-mo and you easy win, in multiplayer It's simply a "Crutch", so reading your post, It sounds like "Dont remove the exploit because i cant kill without it." trust me, i rarely use that exploit, not that because i dont know how to use it, It's just simply not fun. Second, It's just look realy weird.
Last edited by maxim12 on 23 October 2015, 15:23, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: An fix to a exploit that should be added to PB2.5.

Postby maxim12 » 23 October 2015, 15:23

Oh another thing i want to be fixed: In singleplayer with swords, You activae slow-mo and start rapidly clicking on the mouse and so start very rapidly slicing with your swords, which again, makes the game way too easy and ruining the challenge and the actual fun that you want to have.

Lets say you we're in a map with very powerfull enenmy with lots of HP's, say 1500, It's a well hard though work to kill those by just using your original weapons and your swords without the rapid slice exploit, but if you figure out about the exploit of rapid slicing you will kill those guys very easy without challenge. For me It's just destroying singleplayer.

Updated first post.
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Re: Idea for PB2.5.

Postby KARL SERG » 23 October 2015, 16:00

KLMJETWORK wrote:Yeah. I get what you mean. +1

Also, imagine a guy with a Plasmagun CS-Bloom and a CS-BNG quickly swapping and firing... Damn.


Varoid37 did something like this, BNG-jumping then using the Machinegun to fly above the Building.

Speaking of this, assigning B to pick up Weapons instead of immediately picking them up seems quite good to me. But then, what will the People who abuse this Strategy do if they are unable to abuse them anymore?

Maybe this guy has the answer for Gun-switching Animations.
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Re: An fix to a exploit that should be added to PB2.5.

Postby Krutz » 23 October 2015, 21:20

maxim12 wrote:What i talk about is that each gun has It's own weakness and strong points. Shotgun can deal very punchy damage when you shoot the enemy from close distance, which can pretty much out DPS the assault rifle at close range. While at medium and long range shotgun sucks because of terrible accuracy. While assault rilfe is less punchy but It's more accuracte so It's more effective at medium ranges. where the sniper rifle is only good at long ranges, in medium or close range It's absolutly powerless against assault rifle or shotgun.

That is the POINT of carrying multiple weapons, so you have plenty of weapons for the needed situation, close combat? shotgun. Long range? sniper. Fighting enemyies in medium-close comabt? Assault rifle for the work.


actually, the assault rifles are much, much better in damage per second than shotguns

the assault rifle class (with minor approximations during calculations) has an average of 233.39706 damage per second. the shotgun class has an average of 140.66418 damage per second

shotguns are actually not that bad at longer ranges (especially with a typical 150 hp pool), since their projectiles retain rigid damage over distance, like every weapon. because of this, i personally think the shotgun class is overpowered, but thats irrelevant

the sniper rifle is most definitely not good at "only long ranges." actually, the sniper rifle is theoretically completely better than the shotgun or assault rifle at any achievable range, as long as the first shot hits and the hp pool is 275 or below. absolutely powerless against assault rifles or shotguns? absolutely not.

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Re: An fix to a exploit that should be added to PB2.5.

Postby NNC » 24 October 2015, 06:56

maxim12 wrote:how you can switch to another gun instantly?
Well, such behaviour became mainstream in games, and I don't have much against it. A number of arena shooters have a delay between switching to another gun and being able to fire that gun, and this usually looks like a glitch instead of a feature.

After all, a game doesn't necessarily have to be realistc, natural or anything.

maxim12 wrote:[blah blah blah about DPS]
I'm not even going to counter this misbelief, it'd be a waste of time.

maxim12 wrote:Second, since when PB2 has the option to reload guns anyway?
I thought we've been talking about real life situations.

maxim12 wrote:Never seen anyone complaining about it [selfboost].
Simply look around... plazmaburstforum.com had a short life, yet there were few topics like "remove selfboost".

maxim12 wrote:Lets take simply that Selfboost is when the exosuit power your streight [...]
[more blah blah blah] It's just look realy weird.
I was reffering to KLMJETWORK's post, not your post. Sorry for misunderstanding.

maxim12 wrote:In singleplayer with swords, You activae slow-mo and start rapidly clicking [...]
Although Time Warp + swords "combo" indeed looks like an exploit, it probably isn't a big issue for as long as everyone is officially allowed to use cheats in singleplayer. Also, swords can be disabled.


KARL SERG wrote:Varoid37 did something like this, BNG-jumping then using the Machinegun to fly above the Building.
Isn't everyone doing something like this?

KARL SERG wrote:Speaking of this, assigning B to pick up Weapons instead of immediately picking them up seems quite good to me.
I'd like this, thought there should be no delay if the player has no guns yet.


Krutz wrote:the assault rifle class (with minor approximations during calculations) has an average of 233.39706 damage per second. the shotgun class has an average of 140.66418 damage per second
I hope you understand that such average values don't matter in actual combat.

Krutz wrote:the sniper rifle is theoretically completely better than the shotgun or assault rifle at any achievable range
Not when there are many enemies which have to be killed quickly. There'd be no enough time to wait for sniper rifle's reloading process.
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Re: An fix to a exploit that should be added to PB2.5.

Postby Arc_ » 24 October 2015, 07:28

If you're complaining about realism, explain how an individual carries 9 weapons at the same time?


Not like I'm disagreeing with your idea, but using 'realism' as a rebuttal is not going to work.
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Re: An fix to a exploit that should be added to PB2.5.

Postby maxim12 » 24 October 2015, 07:36

Arc_ wrote:If you're complaining about realism, explain how an individual carries 9 weapons at the same time?


It's an idea to fix an exploit or how NNC likes to call his favorite crutch "Tactic".

It's that because i complain because "Unrealistic!" or "I cant beat this!", It's just simply looks really weird exploit.

NNC wrote:Well, such behaviour became mainstream in games, and I don't have much against it. A number of arena shooters have a delay between switching to another gun and being able to fire that gun, and this usually looks like a glitch instead of a feature.


What? I play game like Unreal tournament, there is a delay between switching, and i say It's normal, avoiding comboing multiple weapon projectiles. PB2.5 should have it too, It's just look realy weird.

NNC wrote:Although Time Warp + swords "combo" indeed looks like an exploit, it probably isn't a big issue for as long as everyone is officially allowed to use cheats in singleplayer. Also, swords can be disabled.


Yeah, but most of players like to play singleplayer maps with swords, but they dont like the slice exploit that simply make the game too easy. I know Cheating is allowed, but then why we have that cheat feature that can be open by pressing enter? so the slice exploit should be fixed.
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Re: An fix to a exploit that should be added to PB2.5.

Postby KARL SERG » 24 October 2015, 10:45

Arc_ wrote:If you're complaining about realism, explain how an individual carries 9 weapons at the same time?


Not like I'm disagreeing with your idea, but using 'realism' as a rebuttal is not going to work.


The False Generalisation "It's a Sci-Fi Game/Movie, therefore everything is possible" is just a blatant form of ignorance.

The Character can carry 9 Weapons because the Armor he/she wears is strong enough to hold those Guns in Place (through Magnetism) and make the Character retain full Agility through a Complicated Technology yet to be explained.

Fast-switching of the Weapons could be a Switch-Teleport thing that switches the Weapon in the Character's hands with another one the Character desires. This is far more complicated than retaining Agility while carrying no Weapons compared to the Situation in which one carries several Weapons, so it's less likely to be Desirable and therefore implementable. The Soldier has to do some work him/herself, after all.

Everything can be explained in Sci-Fi through the help of... Science. If it was simple Fiction, I still could explain it with the Help of Science.
I could make up an Alien Race of Humanoid Slugs and explain how they evolved to the Humanoid, Mammal State while getting all 4 Functional Conventional Genders through their Evolution.
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Re: An fix to a exploit that should be added to PB2.5.

Postby maxim12 » 24 October 2015, 10:52

KARL SERG wrote:*Large quote*


Dont forget also that "Sci-fi" is not "Fantastic". "Fantastic" and "Sci-fi" are 2 different genres. they think that because the game is "Sci-fi" it should not be realistic in some points, sci-fi is basicaly high techy stuff, but realism still remains at some point. Well but Fantastic is something Unrealistic, e.g magic's, instant weapon switching, etc.

Sci-fi - Based on Futuristic and techy stuff, but realistic.

Fantasy - Based on things that will never happen. e.g magics, god powers, etc.
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