Realistically Real War [MP]

Multiplayer Maps here.

Realistically Real War [MP]

Postby Hikarikaze » 9 September 2018, 01:19

Man, that excuse of a rework for realwar infuriates me the more I look at it

Map name: Realistically Real War [MP]
Map ID: hikarikaze-rrw
Map description: A band aid fix for the badly handled x death-realwar rework because the people behind the rework have zero idea what a battlefield is apart from playing video game campaigns because those are totally real
Map Page Link: https://www.plazmaburst2.com/?s=9&a=&m= ... &id=906561
Map Demo Link: https://www.plazmaburst2.com/?s=2&map=hikarikaze-rrw

Consider this a (better) alternative to the realwar on the map account. I went ahead and fixed what I thought were issues in both the rework and the original and made a map that solves them while keeping things "realistic" as the name sake goes. It's not as simple like the original but then again none of my maps were simple to begin with
---
Spamming issues
Spoiler: Show More
What bothers me about the rework so much is how poorly it handles spamming in a realistic sense. I don't care what gameplay tests have to say in regards to this point because anecdotal evidence has no value against empirical evidence and frankly, I'm not interested in hearing silly little stories

If you want to solve the spamming issue, you absolutely do not put starting weapons that are highly accurate, regardless of the reasoning. The OICWs and Needles in map's version have very little accuracy bloom and are thus highly accurate. High accuracy combined with a low HP pool absolutely incentivizes spamming even further compared to spraying automatics across the map. The OICW may have a lower RoF than say, a CS-RC, but its accuracy allows it to have higher potential DPS across open ranges such as realwar itself. That is a major problem, especially given how fast paced the TTK in realwar is supposed to be plus the open sightlines and ranges

In my version, OICWs are replaced with LMG-01ms, because the LMG has major accuracy bloom when spraying so spraying across the map isn't viable. Realistically in any war, it's beneficial to fire in single shots or in bursts but since the LMG is innately automatic, most people will spray them anyways. Skill ceilings get higher if the player has the option to fire in ways that are risky (lower DPS) but beneficial and they take those options. OICWs don't give people an option, incentivize spamming, and don't punish people for doing so. LMGs on the other hand punish spammers at longer ranges and rewards people that don't spam. That satisfies the itch of people who'd like to spam across the map and the people that hate spamming overall. Higher skilled people that know what they're doing won't fall for the trap of spamming to win because they'll know it's better to fire in bursts or single shots

I also provided SMGs to satisfy the want to spray even further but the accuracy bloom of the SMG makes it very worthless at longer ranges, the same way the LMG does. If you want to get a kill while spamming, you'd need to get closer to someone and make yourself a bit more vulnerable if perched up on a good vantage point.


Lanes/routes:
Spoiler: Show More
realwar has the problem of being constrained to one primary lane. map's version has this problem too. The latter tries to work around this by creating a small lower lane but only in the center of the map.

This map has tunnels so in actuality, there are two lanes to attack from, and the lanes aren't linear like in the original and rework versions but are instead curved to deter spamming. Real-life war tends to be full of surprise attacks and often feature guerilla style tactics so the design reinforces and reflects that ideology. Campers and sprayers now can't just sit and wait for people to line up on the upper lanes and have to watch out for lower lanes if they don't want to be ambushed. This makes map awareness a more essential skill to have, and it's a skill I always like to emphasize since it's always valuable in any game. In war, awareness in the battle space is key to success anyways

I mean, look at how many ways you can approach the center now: https://prnt.sc/ks7431

By having options on how to approach the opposite side, you can control attacking strategies and ultimately control the area based on your tactics. The rework tried to emphasize "tactics" but it didn't push itself to allow true tactics to exist in terms of options and angles of approach


Spamming counters:
Spoiler: Show More
The map has counters to every camping spot, but requires knowledge on how to access and utilize those counters, as in war in real life. This ties in with the need to strategize and create tactics on how to engage a camper or sprayer in certain spots.

One spot I liked in realwar was the top of the building by the edge. map's version cuts this spot off which I find highly unnecessary because that spot is incredibly open and risky when it comes to attacking from there. Here, it's possible to stand up there, which gives you a great view from above over the upper lanes and the building across the one you're standing on. That sightline however has its flaws. My philosophy with sightlines is that any and every sightline you find and use can and will be used against you.

I even illustrated this point. Look how dangerous standing at that spot is: https://prnt.sc/ks74p7

It's just like actual warfare. Putting yourself out in the open to control the entire center area is a huge risk but highly beneficial. Standing there or not is a decision with weight to it. You can't have a war without decisions that actually matter, and the rework doesn't focus on that aspect enough for some weird reason


I personally won't put this up for approval because the whole staff is inactive and I'm not going to bother wasting my time with that silly process with people whose map knowledge is very questionable at best. If anyone wants to propose this as a replacement for the currently approved version, be my guest, but I personally won't put it on the table
User avatar
Hikarikaze
Proxy [700]
 
Posts: 755
Joined: 24 January 2014, 02:05
Location: Somewhere, just not here

Re: Realistically Real War [MP]

Postby phsc » 9 September 2018, 03:50

id add some hiding spots if possible, places where people wont look at, allowing for counterplay in some cases
but yeah, didnt test it in an actual match, but looks pretty ok
if someone is reading this DONT ressurect ekat again thanks
User avatar
phsc
Android T-01187 [200]
 
Posts: 238
Joined: 27 July 2013, 13:58

Re: Realistically Real War [MP]

Postby Hikarikaze » 9 September 2018, 04:11

phsc wrote:id add some hiding spots if possible, places where people wont look at, allowing for counterplay in some cases
but yeah, didnt test it in an actual match, but looks pretty ok

I'll think about it. I want it to be as straightforward and simple as the original as possible without complicating everything like the rework is doing somewhat. Hiding spots might detract from the feeling of the original map so it's best to handle that carefully
User avatar
Hikarikaze
Proxy [700]
 
Posts: 755
Joined: 24 January 2014, 02:05
Location: Somewhere, just not here

Re: Realistically Real War [MP]

Postby Resi » 10 September 2018, 13:12

This version is pleasant to the eyes, seems simpler for some reason.

The spraying was obviously fixed a lot better than the staff did with some smart positioning, but my favorite part was the underground paths mixed with the water reachable from behind.

Good job.
User avatar
Resi
Cyber Grub [25]
 
Posts: 31
Joined: 16 July 2013, 00:47
Location: Venezuela

Re: Realistically Real War [MP]

Postby Hikarikaze » 10 September 2018, 19:35

Resi wrote:This version is pleasant to the eyes, seems simpler for some reason.

The spraying was obviously fixed a lot better than the staff did with some smart positioning, but my favorite part was the underground paths mixed with the water reachable from behind.

Good job.

I'm glad you liked this version. It's funny how simple changes like swapping the weapons out can make a major difference. I was concerned that this wouldn't be close enough to the original realwar considering I never played it enough to get a good understanding on what made realwar feel like realwar in the first place

The staff version relied way too much on personal playtesting and anecdotal evidence so it missed the mark by a lot in its execution when it comes to general gameplay issues. It was a pretty low bar to get over, honestly speaking. I do hope the competitiveness of this map is more in line with that of more recent maps which is another thing I seemed to notice the staff shy away from. I wouldn't have needed to make this map out of frustration if they had just bothered to look at the bigger picture but I'm not surprised that they didn't do so yet again
User avatar
Hikarikaze
Proxy [700]
 
Posts: 755
Joined: 24 January 2014, 02:05
Location: Somewhere, just not here

Re: Realistically Real War [MP]

Postby wreak » 10 September 2018, 23:01

I still feel like the towers will be a major camping spot in this map (Particularly in COOP). But I have not played the map in a actual match, i'll give it a try later.

As for comparing it to the x d-realwar, its a lot more balanced. I like how well you gone in depth when trying to remake a map that had/has major issues. for this effort, I give it a 5.
wreak
User avatar
wreak
Noir Lime [600]
 
Posts: 640
Joined: 23 January 2015, 02:01

Re: Realistically Real War [MP]

Postby Hikarikaze » 11 September 2018, 01:05

wreak wrote:I still feel like the towers will be a major camping spot in this map (Particularly in COOP). But I have not played the map in a actual match, i'll give it a try later.

That'll always be an inherent problem with any fortified position. There's not really a whole lot I can do with the towers when it comes to deterring campers. They can be a bit challenging to balance. Make the towers less fortified and it becomes worthless as a place to stand ground from, but if I make them a bit more fortified then it becomes an exploitable camping spot. Right now the sightlines shouldn't be too much of a problem but I'll admit what I've done isn't a perfect solution. As it stands though, anyone can always use those sightlines against campers at any time so things should be fair in that regard

I'd remove the towers and replace it with something else but the towers are a unique identifier for realwar and so they're a part of the map's personality imo

wreak wrote:As for comparing it to the x d-realwar, its a lot more balanced. I like how well you gone in depth when trying to remake a map that had/has major issues. for this effort, I give it a 5.

It's beneficial to go in depth as to why the changes are made. The staff's version didn't do that so their changes seemed random or bizarre, even if it did make sense, but there's more changes that didn't make much sense than there were those that did make sense in their version that came from a lack of understanding of the game

Something as controversial as realwar should always have communication on all sides so it's appropriate to communicate what I changed and why I did it
User avatar
Hikarikaze
Proxy [700]
 
Posts: 755
Joined: 24 January 2014, 02:05
Location: Somewhere, just not here


Return to Multiplayer Maps

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users