ZapruderFilm wrote:I think you'd find most people disagree that this is anything remotely close to how it was before.
Regardless, if many players are shown to have an issue with the new forum section, it isn't any issue for us to take it down.
You're going to have to cite and prove that because I've yet to find anyone in support of this system and anyone that thinks this is remotely different than before apart from the process being publicized (and no, the staff members in favor do not count). If we are to trace back from start to the present, this is everything I can find regarding some sort of criticism or opposition to the current system, criticism that has yet to be properly addressed:
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viewtopic.php?f=117&t=20288 - This is slightly forgivable because the system had just been enacted, but there were flaws pointed out right off the bat, which again weren't stressed on because the system was literally on its first day. The description of the system given was quite literally however just a more transparent version of the PMing process.
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https://prnt.sc/hfbimx - This comes from
viewtopic.php?f=117&t=20369 which, again, doesn't show the system in a good light. You'll find this matches up with what I said nicely. Even the topic suggests a lack of communication, which is a flaw I pointed out yet still hasn't been addressed yet for some reason.
The fact we have decent topics that actually suggest revamping or modifying the lazy copypaste that is the system, like
viewtopic.php?f=117&t=20470 and
viewtopic.php?f=117&t=20469 for example, shows that there are problems with the system. Problems that aren't being addressed, which is a problem that even I pointed out and am waiting for an answer on.
When you have double digit replies on map approval requests on popular maps like EGRW and stryde-sniper where it's just technical arguments with a decent chance of it developing into a flame war of some magnitude half the time and a general consensus that the vague, inconsistent, and backwards guidelines need to be double checked and reworked the other half, you cannot say that this system is efficient in the slightest because nothing's getting done. Every removal request is pretty much a wakeup call that the approval guidelines, which mapmakers stick to religiously and unhealthily, need to be looked at, because it's those guidelines that are screwing up how approval's being done in the first place. No clarity, no transparency, and no progress for sure.
If you look at the map approval removal requests, only about 8 maps out of the 18 (almost 50%) on the first page are still standing, including the ones that should've been gone right off the list and including EGRW/stryde-sniper, which is downright surprising. For a system that emphasizes community input, two pages with 41 replies still have yet to make a dent on stryde-sniper and EGRW was just met with an edit that was immediately revoked with no threat to its approval status. You can argue that someone's listening but only to the wrong or partial things.
Also, claiming that multiple people complaining would warrant the section being taken down is a double standard when random things have been taken out at the word of 1-2 people before, case in point the enemies list.
What I'm also getting from the responses is that I apparently am not going to have anything I pointed out properly addressed. I'm still waiting on that lack of communication concern for one. Nobody has a legitimate explanation as to why I wasn't notified of my map getting approved, even when I clearly wrote that I want a notification regarding that whole subject? If there's going to be a system that revolves around participation, make sure the entities in question that the system depends on actually has a presence enough to participate and make a difference. The map approval requests are essentially dominated by generally three people, with a few additional here and there, in what looks like a crusade against approved maps because they violate guidelines that barely make any sense to begin with. Last I checked, three people don't represent the community. This isn't the enemies list topic anymore.
Feel free to trash the system all you want. I'm not for trashing it outright immediately without giving this a chance, but it needs dire changes before it can redeem itself and seemingly skipping around the main concerns while claiming something without evidence of any kind is definitely not a way to be going around and handling the issue. On paper it's a neat idea but the way it's going about is wrong in its current iteration.