Lack of creativity in maps.

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Lack of creativity in maps.

Postby exiler » 1 September 2018, 00:09

I have noticed that recently, an age of copycat maps has arrived and it brings unoriginal, boring maps that we have seen over, and over, and over again. The most recognizable are the maps which copy player Nyove's rocket map template, including the famous raevani-rocket. I'm not going to get into a discussion about whether or not someone had permission to use a map template, because, frankly, it doesn't matter.
This annoying phenomenon has spread through many genres of maps, whether it be a Base map, where one player is invincible and may or may not assign guards, a Swords map, where the game is slowed down and players only have swords (The most famous example of this is the standard "707-swords" map design that many, many mapmakers have copied and published), the Rocket map which I have mentioned, rockets and defibrillators being the only available weapons, and I have even seen a few Saw maps which claim to be authentic, but are essentially copies of player Bosscat1's saw maps. For the most part, cooperative team-based games seem to be different from each other in one way or another, but it's hard to judge maps which do their best to handle such a simple concept.

This occurrence bothers me to no end but applies a certain appraisal to maps which are actually original, or which seek to change the usual map design with a spin or twist on a concept.

Do you think that this is caused by a certain laziness in the players, or is it something else?

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Re: Lack of creativity in maps.

Postby wreak » 1 September 2018, 03:01

This has been happening for ages. Its just that now with the lack of activity, your less likely to find new creative maps or new maps in general.
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Re: Lack of creativity in maps.

Postby guest-electric fish » 1 September 2018, 10:14

Intresting topic dear exiler. This phenomenon has been seen lately since 2016 and since then we are seeing many maps which are either repeatbly used either they are made with the same style. For me who has also made maps i strongly believe that the reason why there is an lack of creativity in maps isn't just only laziness but because they want to restore an map which they used to play a lot and due unknown causes which made map was gone(for 707-swords the reason why it was gone is because he {707} was hacked) their will for replaying this made them able to make on their own the map which they loved. However lately there are people who copying other people's maps and as result many maps are repeatbly seen. Although the rules doesn't forbin stealing maps this habit has become so much notorious that it doesn't only show up their lack of creativity but it also makes plazma burst 2 boring due many maps are replayed and rewatched.
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Re: Lack of creativity in maps.

Postby Druddigon » 1 September 2018, 13:59

yep, i agree with this. i just checked out the cooperation section of maps and looked at "New Popular Maps". I think the reason why people copy other maps is because they don't have enough inspiration or skill (out of the maps I checked, at least 70% didn't overlap their blocks) to make something of their own, and "borrow" ideas from other maps to put in their own.

Kinda wish there was a new mapmaker that put a spin on the idea of pb2 maps but eh.
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Re: Lack of creativity in maps.

Postby mrblake213 » 2 September 2018, 04:03

Some of the popular maps that we see today are just ideas copied from another map.
It's not totally copied, the whole idea is just copied.
An example would be is the tons and tons of the sniper maps genre from stryde-sniper.

Because it's the popular genre today, it's what other people create.
Similar to the Battle Royal genre of the games industry.
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Re: Lack of creativity in maps.

Postby Albzter » 2 September 2018, 12:01

Copying Map + Improving = Success!
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Re: Lack of creativity in maps.

Postby lostmydollar » 2 September 2018, 17:39

well, if all pb2 players could check the forum and watch how we call them stupid for making/playing and rating sh*tty maps, they might start thinking/improving. so yea, i think the problem is that none of the people we are referring to actually realizes that there is something wrong with them
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Re: Lack of creativity in maps.

Postby superfrank1004 » 2 September 2018, 22:10

Its just the idea is copied which makes it less fun and sometimes rots older maps.

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Re: Lack of creativity in maps.

Postby Whyme » 5 September 2018, 16:38

Well, there is various reasons why people would copy other maps. As example learning how a map is created. Let's be honest here, triggers are confusing and hard to master. And even if you think you got it down, there is still so much to explore. And the same counts for concepts and ideas.

I also have copied a map, xnx-school. Except that I have mostly expanded it, added modded weapons and well, that's about it. People also like to copy maps in order to improve them or fit them after their own desires. There is nothing wrong with that, you see that everywhere. A remix of a song is basically also a modified copy of it. A remake of a movie is also the concept made better (or worse).

There is nothing wrong with copying maps and making them a little different. The question is if people put any effort into even changing something. I also dislike it when people copy a map and do no changes to it at all. But if they add things to it, perhaps improve mechanics or even add own mechanics into it, I see no issues with it.

superfrank1004 wrote:Its just the idea is copied which makes it less fun and sometimes rots older maps.

And this is sometimes true, and sometimes it isn't. A song that has been remixed many, many times can still be highly listened to. If something is very popular, or was, it still carries a certain amount of value and popularity around.

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Re: Lack of creativity in maps.

Postby IceRGodZ » 6 September 2018, 13:46

Seeing the same things in your minds tends to make you stay on that place and not go further with creativity.

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Re: Lack of creativity in maps.

Postby Player_PB2 » 8 September 2018, 05:33

i've seen something like this, some modgun maps copied shape-modgun (the only one that i remember), it's just the same map layout, but people made some "changes" which is just changing the background. they need better ideas
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Re: Lack of creativity in maps.

Postby wreak » 8 September 2018, 15:16

Whyme wrote:Let's be honest here, triggers are confusing and hard to master.

Not really, unless your talking about vars. Now those are actually very difficult to master; unless you took Precal, its a huge pain in the a$s to learn. But it's kinda worth it since you can do completely new things or just do old concepts but with much higher efficiency.
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Re: Lack of creativity in maps.

Postby Booraz » 8 September 2018, 19:26

Well I was working on a stealth based campaign, but only 19 votes
https://www.plazmaburst2.com/?s=9&a=&m= ... &id=895969
So why'd I continue if not many people appreciate it?

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Re: Lack of creativity in maps.

Postby phsc » 8 September 2018, 19:57

pb2 is a game for kids
kids like X
they dont really care about quality, they just want X
someone who came up with X gets a spotlight but its either too good or too bad
someone steals X idea, adds a few things to it, really popular, i'll call this Y
Y is really popular, someone makes a simpler version, even more popular
someone makes a high quality complex version, less popular
at this point, people dont really remember about X, someone makes a copy of X with a few Y features but realy crappy, popular

its pretty simple, pb2 has always been like that, someone has a idea, no matter how that person executes that idea, someone will copy it, but pb2 isnt about quality, its about making things as simple as possible, theres many base maps with tons of features that arent popualr so we have paul308-base, we had ph3x-base, xfrostbytex-alcatraz, and a thousand other base maps earlier
and probably the original idea was to use bases to recruit people for clans, and well, turns out kids just like being abusive killers in a flash game!
great ideas can be popular too, but they wont be as much, you can see that prison map i think made by cleaver45, it is pretty great, not a good map, but decent
a ton of people made maps like that before, but they were either too bad or too complex

its like that with everything in life, popular films, music, etc, any art form must be easy to consume, not something which you need to think because people dont like thinking, so pb2 follows that, into a even higher level as its kids we are talking about
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Re: Lack of creativity in maps.

Postby Hikarikaze » 8 September 2018, 21:38

If it works, it works. If there's a design that works well without effort, it's beneficial to have that design work for you as well until a new design comes in as a replacement. Humans always tend to go after the quickest and most beneficial routes after all so it's natural that it gets extended here as well

It's why tropes exist and why trends live on for periods of time
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Re: Lack of creativity in maps.

Postby boom5 » 14 September 2018, 02:31

I think this happens in other level editor games as well. "Happy Wheels" for example. Sword throw, Ball throw, kill your boss etc.
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Re: Lack of creativity in maps.

Postby MLG COOL DOMINIK » 8 November 2018, 14:27

Just dont make your maps open source.
Nobody actually plays this game now, do they?
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Re: Lack of creativity in maps.

Postby phsc » 8 November 2018, 16:15

yes MLG COOL DOMINIK you are right because someone like lets say kubakuba cant do an almost exact copy of a map right?

its not about it tho, its about what exactly is made, all maps are the same thing with small differences, and well the reason can be explained by using the logic that moves our lives: law of supply and demand

i explained before that pb2 is a game for kids, and kids in a general way want a specific thing, ex: base maps where they are literal gods

theres a lot of popular base maps, some go out of the market when better ones get made, kubakuba made a better version of paul308 in the eyes of a kid, yet, if we take the artistic value, paul308 and kubakuba are both trash and we should give it to someone like the dude who made that black mesa map in the deliciously exquisite pizza sauce old level editor, which is a realy old map that is still popular, so in theory a pb2 masterpiece
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Re: Lack of creativity in maps.

Postby maxim12 » 10 November 2018, 17:58

Albzter wrote:Copying Map + Improving = Success!


Ah, yeah. Classic way for easy approved map.

The reason why I think viewing and copying map sources should not have been implented in this game.
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Re: Lack of creativity in maps.

Postby MLG COOL DOMINIK » 17 November 2018, 11:59

maxim12 wrote:
Albzter wrote:Copying Map + Improving = Success!


Ah, yeah. Classic way for easy approved map.

The reason why I think viewing and copying map sources should not have been implented in this game.

People can see the map layout, and copy it one by one.
Nobody actually plays this game now, do they?
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