Which Approved Maps do you want in PB2.5?

[monkeyman2535]

I would just like to clarify that I do not give half an ass about Stryde-sniper, "emotional blackmailing" is not even a thing (honestly I'd like to know where karl gets these ideas from someday), and that GIVING A CHANCE TO NEW CREATORS AND NEW IDEAS IS NOT A BAD THING OKAY.
Thanks guys

[Terabrion]

GIVING A CHANCE TO NEW CREATORS AND NEW IDEAS IS NOT A BAD THING OKAY.
Thanks guys

You're welcome.
I support that ^

[Sniper J]

Tbh, we should just throw out all the current approved maps and have votes on maps to re-approve.

[Star Fox McCloud]

Tbh, we should just throw out all the current approved maps and have votes on maps to re-approve.

Alot of maps got approved with less than 10 stars

[xChakra]

@Hikairikaze(or whatevr)
That's pretty ignorant to quote something I DIDN'T say in this post and since whch monkey was completely oblivious to that, therefore my case rests, and I did mention above I like all the types of maps, each map type has the good, the bad, and the ugly, so I'm pretty sure you read around maybe you won't end up wrong.

*waits for gang-ups and ready to beat them down*
@monkeyman36385950372728293959594(or whatever)
Because you don't give a half-ass doesn't mean other people do, you realize its a 5-1 ratio against people who do like sniper maps(stryde-sniper), so I guess your opinion doesn't matter huh?

[NNC]

@monkeyman2535 @xChakra
Before you ki... guys start a flame war for once again, I'd like remind you that PB2.5 isn't even released and wouldn't be out anytime soon. Isn't it too early to judge the popularity of those maps in PB2.5?

Hikairikaze(or whatevr)
monkeyman36385950372728293959594(or whatever)

I guess you have never heard that you can copy texts...

[Green eyed Demon]

*cough*

Edit: Censored a swear word since people around here are allergic to that

Editx2: Got asked to add this one too

[Star Fox McCloud]

Suit yourself, pb2.5 forums will get flooded and spammed with topics about making approved pb2 maps come back. Dont make me say I told you s......

[Terabrion]

Suit yourself, pb2.5 forums will get flooded and spammed with topics about making approved pb2 maps come back. Dont make me say I told you s......

You better chill the deliciously exquisite pizza sauce out.
I'll quote myself again, from that xat picture.

It's ok to bring them, but come on, don't even approve them, don't have the balls to do so.
It's like keeping pb2 in pb2.5.

Approving any of Pb2's approved maps would be a terrible mistake.

Do you get that point?
Now let me show this as well.

In Pb2.5 I would like to see approved maps WHICH ARE CREATED BY THE PB2.5 COMMUNITY.
For all I care, every old approved map from PB2 can rot in hell after PB2.5's launch. If we're still dependent on the stale, ancient schlock of PB2 by then, there's no hope for this community or any possible continuation of it.

Look, I get you want some good ol' nostalgia in PB2.5, but honestly you would do well to stop perserverating over this. The more we focus on the old stuff, the less we'll be willing to embrace the new stuff. PB2 maps will still be around when PB2.5 rolls around, and we'll always have the memories.

Once again, this.

The PB2 maps can be remade in PB2.5. No need to transfer the old and long forgotten maps.

I think this says it all, in a simple and clear way.

Who wouldnt want to see old maps in pb2.5? Good luck not seeing old players because the ones who havent played pb2 for years wont see nothing special in pb2.5

Oh, so you are implying old players won't be back because they won't see old maps?, seriously?, if they won't play Pb2.5 because of this, then they are not worth the comeback.

Now, my point of view, once again, because this seems to be discussing against blind assholes.
There's something you could have in mind, that is, there are lots of map makers around, these maps could be remade, revisited, IMPROVED.
It is okay if they are transfered to pb2.5, but once again don't have the balls to approve those maps, let's make good maps that are worth the approval, because the approval system is trash, it's a waste.

In my opinion, the PB2 maps shouldn't be approved but at least transferred over.
Keep it like this for PB2.5: have the PB2 maps still be around, but don't make them approved. You can still play on them, but maps from PB2.5 should be approved to have something new and interesting to play. Honestly, it's getting boring seeing the same old maps around for 1-4 years now; something new would be nice to see for a change.

I think all those points go for the same, go for innovation and for improvement, for evolution.

[tehswordninja]

You guys do know that these maps have a really low chance of being popular? Sure, for the first few weeks they might but once good maps start showing up they won't be that popular. I don't think it matters too much, whether we approve them or not, and the game's not even close to coming out so we don't even really need to have this talk.
As long as we can at least bring pb2 maps, even just Single Player maps over, I'm happy.

[Ghost Killer823]

As long as we can at least bring pb2 maps, even just Single Player maps over, I'm happy.

In opinion, I wouldn't agree. You said it's not even close to release so the PB2 maps would be old and forgotten when PB2.5 releases. It's not much of a big deal to remake them if they have not been transferred over. What if PB2.5 is going to be it's own game? There needs to be new attachments and not old ones.

[spirit9871]

If I may:

In my honest opinion, I think it would be best to just start over. I agree with the idea that PB2 maps should be implemented into PB2.5, however I think that they should not be automatically approved.

One major reason for this, as stated by others, is the fact that new map developers will have a chance to shine in a time where people will certainly be trying out a variety of maps with the new gameplay mechanics. The reason this is appealing to me is because we should take a look at the current map approval system. Prestigious map makers get their maps approved fairly quickly, as they are obviously more well-known. However, if a brilliant map maker new to the community wants to get their maps approved, they tend to go around begging for votes because that's how our current system functions (and they may not have a lot of friends to share their maps with). This results in voting 5 stars blindly on maps, and I'm sure a number of you are frustrated from seeing that.

Secondly, there is the undeniable fact that there is a serious problem with map distribution on the Washington and Ukraine servers. While Cali tends to have a rich trove of maps, the only actual maps you see on Wash and EU are just some variant of Sniperwars and Railwars. If we just approve these old maps into PB2.5, I have a feeling that this pattern will just repeat over in time.

Lastly, I've talked to Terabrion and Max Teabag, two notable map developers. From what I'm seeing so far, the both of them promote the idea of new players having a better chance in getting their maps noticed. And how can you blame them for thinking that; there are probably hundreds of approved maps out there that are just rotting away, yet they're not being used because there are serious problems with how Plazma Burst handles its maps. Are these two representative for ALL mapmakers? Of course not, but it's certainly a mindset we should consider before we go off asking other major mapmakers what they think as well.

Overall, I think the idea of all maps having a fresh start in PB2.5 is a good choice, mostly because it can signal a sort of fresh start to a number of failing systems in PB2. With a new game should come some new maps and changes, so I support the notion of all maps being unapproved at the start of 2.5.

As for statements like these:

pb2.5 forums will get flooded and spammed with topics about making approved pb2 maps come back. Dont make me say I told you s......

We shouldn't be worried about receiving criticism even in mass quantities, because we will continue to grow and find ways of getting better with feedback from the community. The system when PB2.5 will not be perfect; if there are problems then we will adapt and overcome. If not approving the old maps becomes a crippling problem, then we will approve them later. It's not a huge deal.

I will later make a Revivalist topic about this, so maybe we can all take the time to plan things out together alongside Staff and maybe even Gurt. For now, I hope you all consider what I've said here, because I myself would like to see a total restart on things so we, the community, can be the ones building the new foundation for 2.5 and beyond, not just Staff or Gurt. I'm willing to bet on this idea of having a fresh start for all maps, because from there, that's where we can start building something new and improved. That's where Plazma Burst can become a series that truly listens to the opinions of its community and become a game for the players.

[Hikarikaze]

@Hikairikaze(or whatevr)
That's pretty ignorant to quote something I DIDN'T say in this post and since whch monkey was completely oblivious to that, therefore my case rests, and I did mention above I like all the types of maps, each map type has the good, the bad, and the ugly, so I'm pretty sure you read around maybe you won't end up wrong.

If I say that sniper maps are awful in topic A, then ask someone when I said that in topic B the next day, then anyone can cite what I said from topic A. It doesn't matter where you said it. You still posted it regardless, and it was recent, hence it's still relevant to the discussion. If it was from, for example, 3 months ago or so, then it wouldn't have been as relevant, because opinions and thoughts do change.

If you or I take out the irrelevant parts of your post that don't pertain to anything regarding stryde-sniper, then you're left with the words "I want stryde-sniper." You asked when you said it, and I showed you when and where. Does it matter if you posted it here, there, or anywhere else? No, it doesn't. You still posted it, and I showed it to you as an answer. Now kindly accept it, otherwise argue with yourself, because I'm not going to waste anymore time arguing over plain immature stupidity.

Overall, I think the idea of all maps having a fresh start in PB2.5 is a good choice, mostly because it can signal a sort of fresh start to a number of failing systems in PB2. With a new game should come some new maps and changes, so I support the notion of all maps being unapproved at the start of 2.5.

I personally think that along with a fresh start, there should be a way to get maps some kind of exposure and attention within the community and a better way to get maps approved, like an approval team (which I'm fairly certain was mentioned/suggested before), instead of letting one person do all the work, though you'd probably have cases of bias and often disagreements over which maps to approve. But then again, the system won't be perfect, as you said.

[monkeyman2535]

@Hikairikaze(or whatevr)
@monkeyman36385950372728293959594(or whatever)

@xachcajhhkkraaa
Dang, you're right! Remembering these usernames sure is difficult!

Because you don't give a half-ass doesn't mean other people do, you realize its a 5-1 ratio against people who do like sniper maps(stryde-sniper), so I guess your opinion doesn't matter huh?

[citation needed]

---

You know, I think the reason why so many people here are adamant about bringing back old maps is because they've never made a map themselves. On the player's end, it's a lot easier to learn how to play a few specific maps, master the techniques, and get their kills there than it is for them to learn new maneuvers and new skillsets from different maps. They've got into these nice little grooves with their favorite maps, so they tend not to venture outside of them. As a result, they think of PB2 in terms of "here's a map that's lots of fun! I want to play this all the time!", and are less inclined to consider the map creators or the community at large.

You like maps like stryde-sniper and x death-realwar because you play them a lot. You are good at them. Playing them makes you feel good. I get that. I've got my own favorite maps too. I actively seek out certain maps on the servers all the time. But I wouldn't want them in PB2.5 because I don't think we need them.

Have you all considered whose profiles these maps would even go on? Would Eric have to create ghost profiles for people like Cahir and Stryde and X Death and Aslang to hold their maps if they didn't import them, or make a catch-all "Old Approved Maps" account? Is it ethical to let all that potential for LDR drain into an account that doesn't even hold a real person?

And is it ethical to give all these old maps automatic consideration over other maps just because they were approved back in the day? I suppose this brings us into the larger debate of whether PB2.5 is a continuation or a fresh start (which is a perfectly valid debate, although I'm inclined to argue the latter case). But before we even look at that angle, consider that re-approving stuff gives an immediate advantage to the returning player or to the ghost account in favor of creators of new maps who are hoping for approvals. In addition, old players who have mastered the techniques of old maps will quickly dominate newer players who may have just joined. I just generally don't see that as fair, and it certainly doesn't leave very many people happy.

It's my belief that a future PB2.5 community will be more prosperous if nobody is given an unfair advantage in the very beginning of the game's life. This means no importing old maps to be approved, no ghost accounts, and, by extension, NO APPROVING RECREATIONS OR REMAKES OF OLD MAPS. That is literally just as bad as granting approvals to the old mapmakers themselves-- actually, worse since the creators of those maps are essentially plagiarizing their ideas from the original material of others.

I hope this will clarify any miscommunication of "You only hate INSERT MAP HERE because you're bad at it! wtf noob!"; I also hope that you all will be able to cut the cords of nostalgia binding you to your old favorites and learn how to play the cool new stuff PB2.5 is certain to have, if we just allow it some space to grow.

[Hikarikaze]

Have you all considered whose profiles these maps would even go on? Would Eric have to create ghost profiles for people like Cahir and Stryde and X Death and Aslang to hold their maps if they didn't import them, or make a catch-all "Old Approved Maps" account? Is it ethical to let all that potential for LDR drain into an account that doesn't even hold a real person?

Now that you mention this, I feel relegated maps could be located on a page (something like the PB2 site profile/easter egg thing) and just have the entire list there. AFAIK, LDR doesn't apply to that account because if it did, it would've crushed every single map-developer on the top 100 easily. It'd be better than wasting space for ghost accounts and it'd likely keep things organized. It wouldn't be an account technically, but rather just a simple page with a simple (and lengthy) list.

The same could go for new PB2.5-era approved maps. Both pages could be found as sections within the map page. That's just my opinion on it though.

[monkeyman2535]

AFAIK, LDR doesn't apply to that account because if it did, it would've crushed every single map-developer on the top 100 easily. It'd be better than wasting space for ghost accounts and it'd likely keep things organized. It wouldn't be an account technically, but rather just a simple page with a simple (and lengthy) list.

The same could go for new PB2.5-era approved maps. Both pages could be found as sections within the map page. That's just my opinion on it though.

This is a good point about the logistics of the situation, but my primary point here was the question of whether or not it's ethical to give such a potential for LDR to a ghost/catch-all account for old maps. Players only have so much time on their hands, and the more popular the ghost maps are, the less popular maps by still-existent players will be. Essentially, you're just siphoning opportunity and popularity away from new mapmakers and new maps and depositing it with a robot account that has no use for such things.

[Star Fox McCloud]

AFAIK, LDR doesn't apply to that account because if it did, it would've crushed every single map-developer on the top 100 easily. It'd be better than wasting space for ghost accounts and it'd likely keep things organized. It wouldn't be an account technically, but rather just a simple page with a simple (and lengthy) list.

The same could go for new PB2.5-era approved maps. Both pages could be found as sections within the map page. That's just my opinion on it though.

This is a good point about the logistics of the situation, but my primary point here was the question of whether or not it's ethical to give such a potential for LDR to a ghost/catch-all account for old maps. Players only have so much time on their hands, and the more popular the ghost maps are, the less popular maps by still-existent players will be. Essentially, you're just siphoning opportunity and popularity away from new mapmakers and new maps and depositing it with a robot account that has no use for such things.

Great point. Also no dont give LDR. Just let it be a ghost. Maybe almost like the account called www.plazmaburst2.com easter egg but much more hidden?

Dont worry about the new map makers, they wont have trouble. The old pb2 editor wont be in pb2.5, It will just be the PB2.5 editor for 2.5 features only.

[NNC]

Have you all considered whose profiles these maps would even go on?

If Eric would just transfer the accounts over to the new PB2.5 site, there shouldn't be a problem with such stuff - leave the maps on corresponding accounts; if PB2.5 would use the same site, there would be absolutely no problems with this at all - simply leave those maps as is.
I'm not sure what is the discussion about...

[Terabrion]

NNC, you have basically said the same he explained about ghost accounts, that is not a good idea.
And now on a quick note: Leave the past behind, most of you fear the change and don't deny it, you guys arw just proving it with this topic. Also, now that I thought about it, wouldn't every map have to be moved? After all there's no map to define an era. Either move them all (terrible idea) or don't move any.
Fox, this specially applies to you, you look deliciously exquisite pizza sauce desperate to have your spamfest realwar in pb2.5 and approved if possible.
What Spirit said was my point of view, open room for improvement and evolution.

[NNC]

What is wrong with such accounts, actually?
Plus, what else do you expect? New accounts for everyone? We already had a "Which accounts would you take over" topic, and I think everyone was able to learn the lesson.